FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[spankyham]

According to this article Mercedes is planning on hitting it's KERS clients (McLaren & Force India) with a huge price rise (from 1 Million Euro to 6 Million!). The article even mentions that Force India might not be able to afford it - which would be disastrous for them. Williams are quoted as saying theirs (which they are developing in-house) will only cost them half a million pounds.



Merc inflates 2011 KERS price

The price for customer teams of Mercedes' 2011-specification KERS system has reportedly increased from an original EUR 1 million to 6 million.

Germany's Auto Motor und Sport reports that F1 teams initially agreed that customer supplies of the energy-recovery technology next should cost purchasing teams just 1 million euros.

A further €5m per team could then be spent on developing the systems.

But instead of receiving €1m invoices from Mercedes, customer teams McLaren and Force India are reportedly being charged €6m each.

The report, published on Wednesday, speculated that Force India in particular will not be able to afford the inflated price, in addition to its €9m bill for Mercedes' 2.4 litre V8 engines.

On the bright side for Mercedes' KERS customers, the German marque believes it can supply a system next year weighing just 21kgs, compared to the 25kg system in 2009.

It is believed the other KERS manufacturers - Ferrari, Renault and Williams - are not going to follow Mercedes' lead by increasing the price of their KERS systems.

Sam Michael, technical director at Williams, is surprised at the reports about high development costs.

"We have estimated the cost of our KERS at half a million pounds (sterling)," said the Australian, "and it will not weigh more than 25kg."

[Robert12010]

typical press again probaly getting a rumour then twist round 360, lets wait till the facts come out!

[bud]

Considering McLaren didn't have to pay for it in 2009 any cost for it is a price hike.

[Robert12010]

Considering McLaren didn't have to pay for it in 2009 any cost for it is a price hike.

they didnt pay?, oh i didnt know that lol well i spose then yeah

[bud]

They were the Mercedes works team then.


Saw this from the same site, with so many teams running the Magneti marelli system this will be beneficial on the development front!

Magneti Marelli is reportedly offering a KERS system to Formula 1 teams for $1-million per season.

The Sesto San Giovanni-based company is a Fiat subsidiary and electronics specialist that was involved with Ferrari's energy-recovery technology deployed in F1 in 2009.

It has already been reported that Ferrari-powered Sauber is considering using a Magneti Marelli system in 2011, as is Red Bull, whose engine supplier Renault also turned to the Italian company for its KERS in 2009.

Autosprint reports that Toro Rosso, also powered by Ferrari, could also use a Magneti Marelli KERS in 2011, as well as the new teams Virgin, Lotus and HRT.

[spankyham]

Considering McLaren didn't have to pay for it in 2009 any cost for it is a price hike.

It actually doesn't make sense because irrespective of Mercedes input, who actually used and refined it? Who sorted out the problems? Surely McLaren have claim to part of the intellectual property based on the development work they obviously did with it in '09.

I mean, there wouldn't even be a Merc KERS system if it wasn't for McLaren and their development work in '09!

[7UpJordan]

I don't think Williams will be using their flywheel afterall on the FW33, but they had been developing a battery system in 09 as well as the flywheel. At least they've got the flywheel system working in that GT Porsche they have been running.

[spankyham]

Perhaps I was a little hasty in my judgment on Mercedes. I read about this on the Merc forum. This article (copy below) seems to indicate that they may own another KERS and this could be the basis for their 2011 system - not the KERS system used by McLaren in '09. According to this, they may own the very compact/efficient system developed by Honda for the their 2009 campaign - before they pulled out of F1. Perhaps Ross Brawn had yet another ace up his sleeve....

Honda's 2009 KERS system unveiled



During the EVS 25 electric vehicle expo in Shanghai earlier this months, Honda engineers presented a glimpse into the development of an advanced high-performance electric motor that Honda had designed as part of a KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) intended for its 2009 Formula One race car.

The stunning design shows how much money was invested by Honda before it withdrew from Formula One. Although alternatives with a flywheel were tried out, they main focus were on a battery system, albeit with the batteries housed in nosecone.

The team judged that this position could retain the packaging and optimisation of the sidepods, while batteries low in the front helped frontal weight bias. The design went as far as housing a water cooler inside the nose to cool down the battery pack.

Power from the batteries was transferred through an oil cooled motor in the left hand sidepod.

Vehicle testing commenced in April 2008 with straight course accelerations, and progressed into circuit tests at Silverstone the following month. Additional circuit tests were conducted at full load in September and showed that it could improve laptimes from 2 to 3 tenths, depending on the circuit.




The final design achieved 7.8 kW (10.46 hp) of power per kilogram, close to Honda's design goal of 8 kilowatts per kilogram. Peak motor efficiency was 99% and peak generator efficiency during regen was 93%. Motor weight was 6.9 kilograms.

[Robert12010]

Perhaps I was a little hasty in my judgment on Mercedes. I read about this on the Merc forum. This article (copy below) seems to indicate that they may own another KERS and this could be the basis for their 2011 system - not the KERS system used by McLaren in '09. According to this, they may own the very compact/efficient system developed by Honda for the their 2009 campaign - before they pulled out of F1. Perhaps Ross Brawn had yet another ace up his sleeve....

Honda's 2009 KERS system unveiled



During the EVS 25 electric vehicle expo in Shanghai earlier this months, Honda engineers presented a glimpse into the development of an advanced high-performance electric motor that Honda had designed as part of a KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) intended for its 2009 Formula One race car.

The stunning design shows how much money was invested by Honda before it withdrew from Formula One. Although alternatives with a flywheel were tried out, they main focus were on a battery system, albeit with the batteries housed in nosecone.

The team judged that this position could retain the packaging and optimisation of the sidepods, while batteries low in the front helped frontal weight bias. The design went as far as housing a water cooler inside the nose to cool down the battery pack.

Power from the batteries was transferred through an oil cooled motor in the left hand sidepod.

Vehicle testing commenced in April 2008 with straight course accelerations, and progressed into circuit tests at Silverstone the following month. Additional circuit tests were conducted at full load in September and showed that it could improve laptimes from 2 to 3 tenths, depending on the circuit.




The final design achieved 7.8 kW (10.46 hp) of power per kilogram, close to Honda's design goal of 8 kilowatts per kilogram. Peak motor efficiency was 99% and peak generator efficiency during regen was 93%. Motor weight was 6.9 kilograms.

well we shall wait and see if anything develops ey

[scotty]

News on Lotus:

Lotus has confirmed it will start the 2011 season without the Kinetic Energy Resource System (KERS).
Team boss Tony Fernandes said in May that the team had 'good reasons' not to have the costly energy recovery technology in next season's car. And technical boss Mike Gascoyne confirmed that the car will only incorporate one of the new technological devices for the start of the 2011 season.
"We will have the adjustable rear wing but not KERS for the start of the season - it's in development - really because of engineering resource," Gascoyne told edp24.co.uk. "Over one lap, it's still not a big plus for its effort, involvement and negatives. Strategically off the start and in races, then yes."
Cars using the KERS device will have the benefit of greater straight-line speed at the touch of a button but the technology comes at some cost and also adds extra weight to the chassis. For Gascoyne, there are other more important areas the team is looking at to make up the extra time on the track.
"At the start of the year, KERS is not going to be the thing that gives us the step up. It's all the other things, and we've taken the choice to concentrate on all those because if we don't get them right, KERS isn't going to make a difference."
Although Lotus will start the season without the device, Gascoyne confirmed that when the team is ready to run with KERS, it will be with new engine supplier Renault's unit.
"Renault are very keen on green technologies and KERS, so it's something we will be pushing."

[texasmr2]

Lotus imho made a good decision for the simple fact that they need to get their chassis sorted aswell as being a financially strapped team compared to most of the field.

[spankyham]

News on Lotus:

Lotus has confirmed it will start the 2011 season without the Kinetic Energy Resource System (KERS).
.....
"Renault are very keen on green technologies and KERS, so it's something we will be pushing."

I'll summarise .... instead of starting our customary 4 seconds behind for each race, we've decided to start 5 seconds behind in 2011

[texasmr2]

News on Lotus:

Lotus has confirmed it will start the 2011 season without the Kinetic Energy Resource System (KERS).
.....
"Renault are very keen on green technologies and KERS, so it's something we will be pushing."

I'll summarise .... instead of starting our customary 4 seconds behind for each race, we've decided to start 5 seconds behind in 2011

You do know what assumptions make of people right?

[spankyham]

You do know what assumptions make of people right?

In this case the conjugation is "assulotus". which means, in this case, it makes an "bottom" out of u and Lotus

[texasmr2]

You do know what assumptions make of people right?

In this case the conjugation is "assulotus". which means, in this case, it makes an "bottom" out of u and Lotus

Big words only prove my point, way to go .