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#222288
I don't think Red Bull favour Vettel, but they just don't do a good job of proving it. :rolleyes:


Sorry Azza, I disagree.

Even with Mark ahead in the WDC, Red Bull did their best to "promote" Vettel with a pit strategy to get him in front of Webber and at Silverstone they absolutely demonstrated their preference for Vettel with the "wing saga".

Give me one example this year where they have favoured Mark over Vettel?

:yes: there is definatly a preference for sebb over mark but thats the way it it i guess
#222290
I assume with the Pit Strategy you're referring to Monza. I don't think that was because of a preference for Vettel, that was 2 get their 2 cars finish as high as possible, and the strategy was adapted mid-race. Vettel also drove his nuts off in that race so he would come out of pits ahead of Webber. Webber would have finished higher if he wasn't held up.

The wing fiasco was because Vettel was first in the championship. It would have looked worse if they gave the wing back to Webber. That wouldn't be logical - he was behind in the championship. Right now I could tell you that if the same thing happened and only one wing upgrade was available, they would put that on Webber's car.

Put it this way, it was never Webber's wing to begin with - it was Red Bull's wing.

I also believe that Webber was given Vettel's damaged chassis for that race - for which I have no explanation for, and in that case that was not fair.

However, going into that race, Webber was the number 2 driver, because of his championship position. But they would not ever ask Webber to move out of the way of Vettel - that would not be fair. But Webber himself admits, that Red Bull change the number 1 status to the driver whose had the better run of results. Vettel at the time of Silverstone.

In my opinion Vettel has always had the better results this whole season, just that whenever he makes mistakes or his car fails, Webber inherits the win. Just think - at Korea the same thing would've happen if Webber didn't make that mistake, he would've won the race.

(Stuff Hamilton and his mistake costing him a win - REMEMBER Webber's mistake ultimately cost him a win and 7 point advantage over Alonso)

The whole driver's table in my opinion is based on Vettel's mistakes and mechanical failures, and drivers subsequently inheriting the wins, this is way bigger than Hamilton's mistakes.
#222299
I assume with the Pit Strategy you're referring to Monza. I don't think that was because of a preference for Vettel, that was 2 get their 2 cars finish as high as possible, and the strategy was adapted mid-race. Vettel also drove his nuts off in that race so he would come out of pits ahead of Webber. Webber would have finished higher if he wasn't held up.

The wing fiasco was because Vettel was first in the championship. It would have looked worse if they gave the wing back to Webber. That wouldn't be logical - he was behind in the championship. Right now I could tell you that if the same thing happened and only one wing upgrade was available, they would put that on Webber's car.

Put it this way, it was never Webber's wing to begin with - it was Red Bull's wing.

I also believe that Webber was given Vettel's damaged chassis for that race - for which I have no explanation for, and in that case that was not fair.

However, going into that race, Webber was the number 2 driver, because of his championship position. But they would not ever ask Webber to move out of the way of Vettel - that would not be fair. But Webber himself admits, that Red Bull change the number 1 status to the driver whose had the better run of results. Vettel at the time of Silverstone.

In my opinion Vettel has always had the better results this whole season, just that whenever he makes mistakes or his car fails, Webber inherits the win. Just think - at Korea the same thing would've happen if Webber didn't make that mistake, he would've won the race.

(Stuff Hamilton and his mistake costing him a win - REMEMBER Webber's mistake ultimately cost him a win and 7 point advantage over Alonso)

The whole driver's table in my opinion is based on Vettel's mistakes and mechanical failures, and drivers subsequently inheriting the wins, this is way bigger than Hamilton's mistakes.


The ex-Vettel chassis had been repaired before being given to Webber. Why would they waste money on building a brand new chassis when they have on which was recently refurbished and 2 races old?!
#222303
To be honest, Vettel can still win this championship. The chances of him winning these last two races are quite high so he can't be ruled out just yet.

If Alonso beats him again in Brazil then Vettel will play second fiddle to Mark in Abu Dhabi.
#222352
Red Bull clearly supports Vettel, but rightly so... He is the better driver and he is the future of their franchise. It would be nice to see Webber win a WDC in the autumn of his career - and I am still holding out hope that RB does tell Seb to support Mark. But it does make sense why they have supported Vettel up until now.
#222370
To be honest, Vettel can still win this championship. The chances of him winning these last two races are quite high so he can't be ruled out just yet.

If Alonso beats him again in Brazil then Vettel will play second fiddle to Mark in Abu Dhabi.



i Disagree,

For example

This what will happen if Vettle wins Both races, with Alonso 2nd Mark 3rd

Drivers Points
Alonso 267
Vettel 256
Webber 250
Hamilton 234
Button 209

This is what will happen if Vettle Wins Both Alonso DNF's 1 Race Comes 3rd in another and Webber finishes 2nd in Both

Drivers Points
Webber 256
Vettel 256
Alonso 246
Hamilton 237
Button 211


Hes gotta hope alonso has a bad result, 2x4th places for example and Webber then has a 2nd and a 3rd place.

play about with the possiblities Here

My point is Webber can win Both races and take the title no matter where Alonos finishes if vettle does that Alonso can take a 3rd and 4th Behind Webber and still take the title.
#222377
Are we just expecting Kubica to drop off the face of the planet!? :irked::thumbdown: This is a fantastic link, and I just put in

Brazil:

1. Vettel
2. Webber
3. Alonso
4. Kubica
5. Hamilton
6. Button

Abu Dhabi:

1. Vettel
2. Webber
3. Kubica
4. Hamilton
5. Alonso
6. Petrov
7. Button

And I got:

1. Webber 256 Points
2. Alonso 256 Points
3. Vettel 256 Points
4. Hamilton 232 Points
5. Button 205
:yikes:

HOLY CRAP!

But the calculator is flawed, because Webber would have 4 wins, and both Alonso and Vettel would have 5!
#222380
I just did the math

In the above scenario, Vettel and Alonso would be even on wins, second places, and third places, but Vettel has finished 4th three times this season. :thumbup:


I'm not sure if it goes to 2nd place etc. after even wins, is it not poles or something?
#222382
I just did the math

In the above scenario, Vettel and Alonso would be even on wins, second places, and third places, but Vettel has finished 4th three times this season. :thumbup:


I'm not sure if it goes to 2nd place etc. after even wins, is it not poles or something?

Nope, it goes by placements in the races as outlined above.
#222391
So in my opinion Vettel still does have a very strong chance, and we'll see Kubica, Rosberg and Schumacher breaking up the order.

Hence, Webber has to win in Brazil if he wants his team's backing for the WDC. And he better not make anymore mistakes! :irked:
#222394
If Vettel is running first Webber second Alonso third then towards the end of the race RB would surely have to swap Mark and Seb. Only if Alonso Dnfs or is running lowly will Vettel and Webber hold stations.
#222396
If Vettel is running first Webber second Alonso third then towards the end of the race RB would surely have to swap Mark and Seb. Only if Alonso Dnfs or is running lowly will Vettel and Webber hold stations.


This sounds like a likely scenario. :yes:
#222397
If Vettel is running first Webber second Alonso third then towards the end of the race RB would surely have to swap Mark and Seb. Only if Alonso Dnfs or is running lowly will Vettel and Webber hold stations.

Good point - Horner may end up with a dilemma he desperately tried to avoid :P

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