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[Jensonb]

I would have no problem at all if McLaren got back atleast $50+ million because I agree with most that the fine was very very excessive.

Funny enough tex I agree with you. I disagree with the method many here say it should be used to accomplish it. At the time this story blew up in the media around the world the ruling body had to take a stand and say to the world that this conduct is not acceptable and I think there were calls to ban them for I dont know how long.(please correct me if I am wrong.) I was relieved when they were slapped with a fine. one so huge it would cripple many a team but they managed. somehow i think the fia knew they could afford it. not being a mclaren fan in no way meant that i would have prefered them kicked off the grid for a while. Other issues at hand may give mclaren a porthole to operate through and maybe get something back simply based on the FIA's unfairness on handing down penalties for (maybe) similar "crimes". they will not be able to clear their names as if spygate or the other one never happened.

Anyway, enough time spent on this topic.

I don't understand your point. You think McLaren should be given back at least some of the ine, but you "disagree with the method" we're suggesting? What other method is there? You think the FiA has Fifty Million Euros (Basing that figure on Tex's post) just lying around that they can give McLaren to keep them sweet, completely unprompted? McLaren will get nothing without applying some pressure.

[bud]

Just typical drivel from a Ferrari fan.

[antoniob]

I would have no problem at all if McLaren got back atleast $50+ million because I agree with most that the fine was very very excessive.

Funny enough tex I agree with you. I disagree with the method many here say it should be used to accomplish it. At the time this story blew up in the media around the world the ruling body had to take a stand and say to the world that this conduct is not acceptable and I think there were calls to ban them for I dont know how long.(please correct me if I am wrong.) I was relieved when they were slapped with a fine. one so huge it would cripple many a team but they managed. somehow i think the fia knew they could afford it. not being a mclaren fan in no way meant that i would have prefered them kicked off the grid for a while. Other issues at hand may give mclaren a porthole to operate through and maybe get something back simply based on the FIA's unfairness on handing down penalties for (maybe) similar "crimes". they will not be able to clear their names as if spygate or the other one never happened.

Anyway, enough time spent on this topic.

I don't understand your point. You think McLaren should be given back at least some of the ine, but you "disagree with the method" we're suggesting? What other method is there? You think the FiA has Fifty Million Euros (Basing that figure on Tex's post) just lying around that they can give McLaren to keep them sweet, completely unprompted? McLaren will get nothing without applying some pressure.

Jensonb. ok we dancing around the issue at hand. what will mclaren gain by applying pressure as you say ? will the world say " yes thats right, they should go after the fia because they were fined way too much for cheating. which implies that cheating is allowed. for all we know certain levels of cheating warrants lessor fines or punishment. or do you perhaps assume that their sponsors will look at it and ask one question - how do we look in the face of our clients out there that we spending money on a outfit that feels they dont deserve to be punished for cheating. IMHO I think it will do more harm to them than good.
The only route of action that could work would be to go after MM like Flav has done. Flavio is still guilty for the merits of his case hasn't been reviewed. his punishment was overturned by the court ONLY on the grounds of max having been the executioner. ( we all know what that was about) Banning Flav for life could probably have costed him big in lost earnings as well.
Bud I dont see attempting to turn the thread into a ferrari/mclaren issue is the mature way to go. I am not defending ferrari at all. If they had to be found guilty of the same offence I would come to the same conclusion.
Anyway, there's a militant route as well. mclaren can storm a bank and keep eveybody in there hostage and demand that their name be cleared and not pay any fees for the next 20 years. that should be a bargain !!

[Gilles 27]

At the time, i thought the fine was lenient given that it was £50,000,000 minus the end of season winnings. The actual fine they paid was more like £20,000,000. The £50,000,000 figure in itself was less than the difference between the McLaren and Renault budgets that season. Throwing them out of the constructors championship was relatively meaningless because nobody really cares about it anyway. They wanted a title scrap so didn't throw the drivers out (which imo they should have done as they were driving cars built on what was ruled as being illegally obtained information) so they were left with a financial penalty which had to be big, otherwise it too would be meaningless.

[antoniob]

At the time, i thought the fine was lenient given that it was £50,000,000 minus the end of season winnings. The actual fine they paid was more like £20,000,000. The £50,000,000 figure in itself was less than the difference between the McLaren and Renault budgets that season. Throwing them out of the constructors championship was relatively meaningless because nobody really cares about it anyway. They wanted a title scrap so didn't throw the drivers out (which imo they should have done as they were driving cars built on what was ruled as being illegally obtained information) so they were left with a financial penalty which had to be big, otherwise it too would be meaningless.

Looks like Jensonb has now finalised his migration to mclaren as well. Fighting for their honour ( however shamed to hell) till no end. I used to like mclaren a lot more than I do now. spygate and liegate changed my mind but I wouldn't want em to wither and die. They just another outfit participating in the competition.

[bud]

I would have no problem at all if McLaren got back atleast $50+ million because I agree with most that the fine was very very excessive.

Funny enough tex I agree with you. I disagree with the method many here say it should be used to accomplish it. At the time this story blew up in the media around the world the ruling body had to take a stand and say to the world that this conduct is not acceptable and I think there were calls to ban them for I dont know how long.(please correct me if I am wrong.) I was relieved when they were slapped with a fine. one so huge it would cripple many a team but they managed. somehow i think the fia knew they could afford it. not being a mclaren fan in no way meant that i would have prefered them kicked off the grid for a while. Other issues at hand may give mclaren a porthole to operate through and maybe get something back simply based on the FIA's unfairness on handing down penalties for (maybe) similar "crimes". they will not be able to clear their names as if spygate or the other one never happened.

Anyway, enough time spent on this topic.

I don't understand your point. You think McLaren should be given back at least some of the ine, but you "disagree with the method" we're suggesting? What other method is there? You think the FiA has Fifty Million Euros (Basing that figure on Tex's post) just lying around that they can give McLaren to keep them sweet, completely unprompted? McLaren will get nothing without applying some pressure.

Jensonb. ok we dancing around the issue at hand. what will mclaren gain by applying pressure as you say ? will the world say " yes thats right, they should go after the fia because they were fined way too much for cheating. which implies that cheating is allowed. for all we know certain levels of cheating warrants lessor fines or punishment. or do you perhaps assume that their sponsors will look at it and ask one question - how do we look in the face of our clients out there that we spending money on a outfit that feels they dont deserve to be punished for cheating. IMHO I think it will do more harm to them than good.
The only route of action that could work would be to go after MM like Flav has done. Flavio is still guilty for the merits of his case hasn't been reviewed. his punishment was overturned by the court ONLY on the grounds of max having been the executioner. ( we all know what that was about) Banning Flav for life could probably have costed him big in lost earnings as well.
Bud I dont see attempting to turn the thread into a ferrari/mclaren issue is the mature way to go. I am not defending ferrari at all. If they had to be found guilty of the same offence I would come to the same conclusion.
Anyway, there's a militant route as well. mclaren can storm a bank and keep eveybody in there hostage and demand that their name be cleared and not pay any fees for the next 20 years. that should be a bargain !!

[Gaz]

At the time, i thought the fine was lenient given that it was £50,000,000 minus the end of season winnings. The actual fine they paid was more like £20,000,000. The £50,000,000 figure in itself was less than the difference between the McLaren and Renault budgets that season. Throwing them out of the constructors championship was relatively meaningless because nobody really cares about it anyway. They wanted a title scrap so didn't throw the drivers out (which imo they should have done as they were driving cars built on what was ruled as being illegally obtained information) so they were left with a financial penalty which had to be big, otherwise it too would be meaningless.

Looks like Jensonb has now finalised his migration to mclaren as well. Fighting for their honour ( however shamed to hell) till no end. I used to like mclaren a lot more than I do now. spygate and liegate changed my mind but I wouldn't want em to wither and die. They just another outfit participating in the competition.

Why do people always say that

"i used to like Mclaren until they became cheats"

You support Ferrari and Schumacher.

People in Glass houses shouldn't throw stones, yet your swinging around that sledge hammer gob of yours.

[antoniob]

At the time, i thought the fine was lenient given that it was £50,000,000 minus the end of season winnings. The actual fine they paid was more like £20,000,000. The £50,000,000 figure in itself was less than the difference between the McLaren and Renault budgets that season. Throwing them out of the constructors championship was relatively meaningless because nobody really cares about it anyway. They wanted a title scrap so didn't throw the drivers out (which imo they should have done as they were driving cars built on what was ruled as being illegally obtained information) so they were left with a financial penalty which had to be big, otherwise it too would be meaningless.

Looks like Jensonb has now finalised his migration to mclaren as well. Fighting for their honour ( however shamed to hell) till no end. I used to like mclaren a lot more than I do now. spygate and liegate changed my mind but I wouldn't want em to wither and die. They just another outfit participating in the competition.

Why do people always say that

"i used to like Mclaren until they became cheats"

You support Ferrari and Schumacher.

People in Glass houses shouldn't throw stones, yet your swinging around that sledge hammer gob of yours.

I dont support ferrari of schumi tbh gaz. I choose ( like having a choice ) who I want to support. Here on mars things work differently.

[Jensonb]

At the time, i thought the fine was lenient given that it was £50,000,000 minus the end of season winnings. The actual fine they paid was more like £20,000,000. The £50,000,000 figure in itself was less than the difference between the McLaren and Renault budgets that season. Throwing them out of the constructors championship was relatively meaningless because nobody really cares about it anyway. They wanted a title scrap so didn't throw the drivers out (which imo they should have done as they were driving cars built on what was ruled as being illegally obtained information) so they were left with a financial penalty which had to be big, otherwise it too would be meaningless.

Looks like Jensonb has now finalised his migration to mclaren as well. Fighting for their honour ( however shamed to hell) till no end. I used to like mclaren a lot more than I do now. spygate and liegate changed my mind but I wouldn't want em to wither and die. They just another outfit participating in the competition.

Unfortunately for you, I've been saying for a very long time, on this forum that the guilt was there but the penalty was not fair.

[racechick]

At the time, i thought the fine was lenient given that it was £50,000,000 minus the end of season winnings. The actual fine they paid was more like £20,000,000. The £50,000,000 figure in itself was less than the difference between the McLaren and Renault budgets that season. Throwing them out of the constructors championship was relatively meaningless because nobody really cares about it anyway. They wanted a title scrap so didn't throw the drivers out (which imo they should have done as they were driving cars built on what was ruled as being illegally obtained information) so they were left with a financial penalty which had to be big, otherwise it too would be meaningless.

Looks like Jensonb has now finalised his migration to mclaren as well. Fighting for their honour ( however shamed to hell) till no end. I used to like mclaren a lot more than I do now. spygate and liegate changed my mind but I wouldn't want em to wither and die. They just another outfit participating in the competition.

Why do you only mention things perpetrated by mclaren? Is it because they are high profile because of Mosley's dislike of Ron? Or can you not get over you prejudice? Do you not realise that this has gone on with all teams since F1 began?
No one is saying McLaren were not guity. McLaren were guilty, along with most other race teams. The issue is the selective, corrupt and out of proportion penalty that was administered.

[Gaz]

At the time, i thought the fine was lenient given that it was £50,000,000 minus the end of season winnings. The actual fine they paid was more like £20,000,000. The £50,000,000 figure in itself was less than the difference between the McLaren and Renault budgets that season. Throwing them out of the constructors championship was relatively meaningless because nobody really cares about it anyway. They wanted a title scrap so didn't throw the drivers out (which imo they should have done as they were driving cars built on what was ruled as being illegally obtained information) so they were left with a financial penalty which had to be big, otherwise it too would be meaningless.

Looks like Jensonb has now finalised his migration to mclaren as well. Fighting for their honour ( however shamed to hell) till no end. I used to like mclaren a lot more than I do now. spygate and liegate changed my mind but I wouldn't want em to wither and die. They just another outfit participating in the competition.

Why do people always say that

"i used to like Mclaren until they became cheats"

You support Ferrari and Schumacher.

People in Glass houses shouldn't throw stones, yet your swinging around that sledge hammer gob of yours.

I dont support ferrari of schumi tbh gaz. I choose ( like having a choice ) who I want to support. Here on mars things work differently.

Mate you have no idea how much i don't care.

Infact however much your thinking that i dont' care right now, double it then multiply it by ten.

[texasmr2]

So does anyone think something will actually happen concerning the issue at hand with the FIA?

[Frosty]

Unfortunately for you, I've been saying for a very long time, on this forum that the guilt was there but the penalty was not fair.

Sums it up very nicely in my opinion

[bud]

So does anyone think something will actually happen concerning the issue at hand with the FIA?

who knows, perhaps McLaren wont do anything to get in the good books with Todt... afterall Todt was one of the main opponents during the case, using the media to hurt McLarens rep instead of going by the book. Kinda ironic now i think.
But that 100 Mil will sure be handy in setting up their own engine works...

[Jabberwocky]

I think it is gonna be like a cold war, I am sure it will get mentioned the next time some does not like a fine that they get.