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[Hanwombat]

Valencia will still be crap reguardless

Good news tho...

yeh good news for a RENAULT FAN EH??

Im sorry are you talking to ME ??

Yeh since your supporting Renault F1 now.

turncoat!

calm down.

Uh oh no you didnt!!

[billindenver]

I still think the $50,000 fine is lenient. Needs at least another two zeroes. For two reasons: the first being that they let the car go with the wheel loose, THEN failed to stop it in the Pit Lane and THEN failed to let Fernando know so he could act accordingly. The second reason is that, like it or not, these things do not occur in a vacuum. Renault shouldn't have acted as they did at the best of times, but in the climate at the time, so soon after such devastating accidents...Their actions were foolhardy and smack of negligence.

DAYM STRAIGHT!!!

Where has it been determined that they knew the wheel nut was loose when the car left? Yes, the shroud was rotating but that is often a shroud problem, not a wheel nut. So, the first reason - "They let the car go with the wheel nut loose" is assuming they knew it was loose when they let it go....which has not been determined to my knowledge. If it was a simply mechanical failure (cross thread, nut failure, gun failure) then like any other mechanical failure in racing, it is regrettable but unavoidable. Anyone who has ever had an air gun in their hands knows that there are many reasons that can cause that nut not to be tight but seem like it is. If it was human error...same thing. The assumption being made by a few in here is that the mechanic in question knew he had screwed the pooch and didn't care...which I have seen nothing to suggest.... other than opinions in here. The second reason above is suggesting that because there was a catastrophe somewhere else in the world within a week of this incident that the punishment for this incident should be ten times worse than it normally would be...which I disregard on face value. Rules don't change due to circumstances outside of the event....that would be chaos to enforce and is the REASON formula one has been under attack lately...the rules are too fluid and the enforcement too random.

[Hexagram]

I still think the $50,000 fine is lenient. Needs at least another two zeroes.

Utter rubbish.

So soon after such devastating accidents...Their actions were foolhardy and smack of negligence.

It was a rouge piece off your teams car that caused one of those devastating accidents buddy. Whats the saying I'm looking for?

He who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

[Gaz]

Valencia will still be crap reguardless

Good news tho...

yeh good news for a RENAULT FAN EH??

Im sorry are you talking to ME ??

Yeh since your supporting Renault F1 now.

turncoat!

calm down.

Uh oh no you didnt!!

did what you seamed uncalm thats all

[bud]

It was a rouge piece off your teams car that caused one of those devastating accidents buddy.

difference being BrawnGP didnt have knowledge a piece would fly off, it was a freak occurrence. Renault on the other hand (infact anyone with a brain) knew the wheel was going to come off of Alonso's car before he got back to the pits in time. Which has we have seen recently is very dangerous.

[billindenver]

It was a rouge piece off your teams car that caused one of those devastating accidents buddy.

difference being BrawnGP didnt have knowledge a piece would fly off, it was a freak occurrence. Renault on the other hand (infact anyone with a brain) knew the wheel was going to come off of Alonso's car before he got back to the pits in time. Which has we have seen recently is very dangerous.

Oh come on man. We have all seen flat tires that looked like they would come off that didnt. The wheel was wobbling, but the team didn't know the nut had departed nor for that matter did they (or you) know it was the nut until slow motion replays brought that to light after the fact.

The truth of the matter is a mistake was made during a 6 second pit stop of which maybe 1 second was spent on that wheel nut. If you can't see how that can happen without it being gross negligence, then I just can't explain it to you. Human errors happen when at the extreme end of haste....which is the definition of all things racing. Drivers screw up and put other drivers in danger, mechanics do the same...as to engineers on the pit wall and the pit goddess holding the flag before the race. It's racing...which would not exist if human error wasn't part of the equation.

[Jensonb]

I still think the $50,000 fine is lenient. Needs at least another two zeroes.

Utter rubbish.

So soon after such devastating accidents...Their actions were foolhardy and smack of negligence.

It was a rouge piece off your teams car that caused one of those devastating accidents buddy. Whats the saying I'm looking for?

He who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

I don't recall ever constructing any suspension geometry on any car, let alone an F1 car, let alone a Brawn GP. Furthermore, I don't recall there ever being any warning that that spring would detach. There was plenty of warning that that wheel would come off. And given that Renault have a history of not attaching wheels properly in Hungary, and given the recent accidents, the slightest indication that something was wrong (And we know there was indication, as per Charlie Whiting's case) should have called at least for the team to check the videos and inform Fernando that the wheel appeared to be loose.

Also, Bill, the frequency of wheel's coming off in other categories has no bearing here. This is Formula One, the pinnacle of motorsport. Wheels rarely come off F1 cars and we have rules regulating for that specific occurrence.

[texasmr2]

It was a rouge piece off your teams car that caused one of those devastating accidents buddy.

difference being BrawnGP didnt have knowledge a piece would fly off, it was a freak occurrence. Renault on the other hand (infact anyone with a brain) knew the wheel was going to come off of Alonso's car before he got back to the pits in time. Which has we have seen recently is very dangerous.

Oh come on man. We have all seen flat tires that looked like they would come off that didnt. The wheel was wobbling, but the team didn't know the nut had departed nor for that matter did they (or you) know it was the nut until slow motion replays brought that to light after the fact.

The truth of the matter is a mistake was made during a 6 second pit stop of which maybe 1 second was spent on that wheel nut. If you can't see how that can happen without it being gross negligence, then I just can't explain it to you. Human errors happen when at the extreme end of haste....which is the definition of all things racing. Drivers screw up and put other drivers in danger, mechanics do the same...as to engineers on the pit wall and the pit goddess holding the flag before the race. It's racing...which would not exist if human error wasn't part of the equation.

Sorry Bill but your arguement hold's no water and it does not matter how many different scenario's you can think of, it was flat out negligence on Renaults part and they admitted it, case closed.

[billindenver]

It was a rouge piece off your teams car that caused one of those devastating accidents buddy.

difference being BrawnGP didnt have knowledge a piece would fly off, it was a freak occurrence. Renault on the other hand (infact anyone with a brain) knew the wheel was going to come off of Alonso's car before he got back to the pits in time. Which has we have seen recently is very dangerous.

Oh come on man. We have all seen flat tires that looked like they would come off that didnt. The wheel was wobbling, but the team didn't know the nut had departed nor for that matter did they (or you) know it was the nut until slow motion replays brought that to light after the fact.

The truth of the matter is a mistake was made during a 6 second pit stop of which maybe 1 second was spent on that wheel nut. If you can't see how that can happen without it being gross negligence, then I just can't explain it to you. Human errors happen when at the extreme end of haste....which is the definition of all things racing. Drivers screw up and put other drivers in danger, mechanics do the same...as to engineers on the pit wall and the pit goddess holding the flag before the race. It's racing...which would not exist if human error wasn't part of the equation.

Sorry Bill but your arguement hold's no water and it does not matter how many different scenario's you can think of, it was flat out negligence on Renaults part and they admitted it, case closed.

Held enough water for the suspension to be cancelled and a $50k slap on the wrists awarded instead. As I've said, a fair penalty for a minor infraction. I'm not saying the team is free from any blame, I'm saying it was human error and part of the game. That wheel departed, what...1 minute after the car left the pit lane? In 60 seconds...could anyone have diagnosed the problem on the video monitors, asked the mechanic if he was sure of the nut being tight, examine the telemetry, determine what exactly was the problem, decide on a course of action and implement it? Not likely...and neither could Renault. You are certainly correct though, the case is closed...$50k fine and race on.

[Frosty]

It was a rouge piece off your teams car that caused one of those devastating accidents buddy.

difference being BrawnGP didnt have knowledge a piece would fly off, it was a freak occurrence. Renault on the other hand (infact anyone with a brain) knew the wheel was going to come off of Alonso's car before he got back to the pits in time. Which has we have seen recently is very dangerous.

Oh come on man. We have all seen flat tires that looked like they would come off that didnt. The wheel was wobbling, but the team didn't know the nut had departed nor for that matter did they (or you) know it was the nut until slow motion replays brought that to light after the fact.

The truth of the matter is a mistake was made during a 6 second pit stop of which maybe 1 second was spent on that wheel nut. If you can't see how that can happen without it being gross negligence, then I just can't explain it to you. Human errors happen when at the extreme end of haste....which is the definition of all things racing. Drivers screw up and put other drivers in danger, mechanics do the same...as to engineers on the pit wall and the pit goddess holding the flag before the race. It's racing...which would not exist if human error wasn't part of the equation.

Sorry Bill but your arguement hold's no water and it does not matter how many different scenario's you can think of, it was flat out negligence on Renaults part and they admitted it, case closed.

Held enough water for the suspension to be cancelled and a $50k slap on the wrists awarded instead. As I've said, a fair penalty for a minor infraction. I'm not saying the team is free from any blame, I'm saying it was human error and part of the game. That wheel departed, what...1 minute after the car left the pit lane? In 60 seconds...could anyone have diagnosed the problem on the video monitors, asked the mechanic if he was sure of the nut being tight, examine the telemetry, determine what exactly was the problem, decide on a course of action and implement it? Not likely...and neither could Renault. You are certainly correct though, the case is closed...$50k fine and race on.

Renault knew the tyre was loose when they let the car out of the pit they addmited to it see!

"That the competitor knowingly released car #7 from the pitstop position without one of the retaining devices for the wheelnuts being securely in place, this being an indication that the wheel itself may not have been properly secured.

"Being aware of this failed to take any action to prevent the car from leaving the pitlane.

"Failed to inform the driver of this problem or to advise him to take appropriate action given the circumstances, even through the driver contacted the team by radio believing he had a puncture.

"This resulted in a heavy car part [the metal retaining device] detaching at Turn 5 and the wheel itself detaching at Turn 9."

Anyone with half a brain would realise that they wheel was loose before it got to the end of the pit lane.

[EDIT] Not putting the tyre on correctly was human error. Releasing the car when they knew the tyre was loose and the actions of the Renault team after was just gross negligence no getting around that!

[darwin dali]

So what does it mean for Renault to have their race ban suspended? I can't imagine they would make the same (or similar) mistake again. Could the race ban come into play for ANY infraction they're found to be guilty of or just major ones?
In the US there's the 'three strikes and you're out' law where you could get life for stealing a pizza if it's preceded by 2 felonies (actually happened).

[bud]

Good point charles_salvador I would assume any rule breaking would be enough to readminister the ban.

[darwin dali]

Good point charles_salvador I would assume any rule breaking would be enough to readminister the ban.

And while we're at it: how long is the 'probation' going to be? End of this season or what?

[Frosty]

Good point charles_salvador I would assume any rule breaking would be enough to readminister the ban.

And while we're at it: how long is the 'probation' going to be? End of this season or what?

Normally a year isn't it?

[darwin dali]

Good point charles_salvador I would assume any rule breaking would be enough to readminister the ban.

And while we're at it: how long is the 'probation' going to be? End of this season or what?

Normally a year isn't it?

Normally and the FIA don't really go together, do they?