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[kerc]

I am hoping that in 2009, 6 drivers have cars that can bring them a chance of glory.

They are,
Lewis Hamiltion, McLaren-Mercedes. (I hope he dosen't win it though)
Felipe Massa, Ferrari (He deserves his turn in 2009)
Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari (If Massa doesn't win, then Kimi is the man)
Fernando Alonso, Renault (A Spaniard to win if Ferrari don't win is great)
Robert Kubica, BMW-Sauber (I hope their 2009 car is really good and fast because if Ferrari don't win, Kubica is the man)
Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull-Ferrari (A longshot but he is a talented driver and the Redbull car if it is as good as last season, with a Ferrari engine should be really competitive).

Basically the same list I have, with the only difference that with Kimi, it depends if he has the fire back in him again or not...

[kerc]

in the meantime I will do some racing of my own, laguna seca, sears point, and thunderhill.

Great-looking Mustang. How does it handle the infamous Corkscrew?

[onelapdown]

There are no records McLaren has more than Ferrari. None whatsoever.

Can I also point out, Ferrari never took part in CanAm, let alone won, have never won the Indy 500, and didn't win the Le Mans 24 hours on their debut. So there are some records that Mclaren have that Ferrari simply can't touch. Now if you're talking just about F1... Then I look forward to the day Ferrari is fined more than $100,000,000!!!

Ferrari will never get fined $100,000,000. If that happened Ferrari will say bye, bye and then that will also mean bye, bye F1. About CanA< and Indy 500 and LeMan 24 hours, so what if Ferrari didn't take part. This is about F1 so why even mention them. Ferrari have won IMSA before as well and McLaren have not. But do you see me mentioning IMSA? Ferrari are the greatest in F1. In other motorsport they are not, I know that and I don't even pretend they are. But I can still be proud to say that Lancia are the greatest in WRC (even after not being there since 1993) and Ford, Porsche and Alfa Romeo are great in many other motorsports so I'll be happy with that. Even going back to Ford and Porsche, some of McLaren's race and championship titles were powered by Ford and Porsche................................... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

So I take it then that you accept there some records that McLaren has that Ferrari does not... as opposed to "none whatsoever"

[bmwpower]

Great-looking Mustang. How does it handle the infamous Corkscrew?

Well the funny thing is I belong to the BMW Car Club of America and they sponsor events at various tracks but what do I show up with instead of my M3?? a Roush Mustang. It puts down 525HP going up the straights, about 75ft from the corkscrew tap on the brakes and let the Roush race suspension do the work, a quick left and right, let it straighten out and back on the gas again and let that V8 roar again.

[texasmr2]

Great-looking Mustang. How does it handle the infamous Corkscrew?

Well the funny thing is I belong to the BMW Car Club of America and they sponsor events at various tracks but what do I show up with instead of my M3?? a Roush Mustang. It puts down 525HP going up the straights, about 75ft from the corkscrew tap on the brakes and let the Roush race suspension do the work, a quick left and right, let it straighten out and back on the gas again and let that V8 roar again.

Sound's like heaven to me!

[AKR]

It's also worth noting that teams go through bad patches. In the mid-1990s, McLaren struggled because they couldn't find a good engine supplier. Since 2000, the team couldn't take the extra step and win titles because of internal politics: the Technology Centre was being built and for some time some of the McLaren Group's possessions were in storage; Adrian Newey wasn't doing his job properly, was allowed free reign on artistic car designs and wanted to design boats; Mercedes were increasing their shareholding in McLaren; and in 2001, Paul Morgan died, and then Mercedes took over Ilmor; so all of this was bound to be unsettling. Since these matters have been gradually dealt with, McLaren's performance has improved.

And that is Ferrari's fault because.............?

[AKR]

"Ever had and Will" - there you go again with your stupid childish insults because ferrari will never be suppased well one day it might happen don't be so deluded

2000 - Schui/Ferrari Wins - Mclaren Drivers finish 2nd and 3rd 8points in constructors hardly untouchable

2001 - This was a good year for Ferrari but hardly the dominance the 1988 Mclaren showed

2002 - Ferrari's best year but 2 wins of matching Mclarens Mp4/4

2003 - Close year between Kimi and Schui if the Mclaren was more reliable would of been Kimi's title.

2004 - Another great year for Ferrari - Mclaren were no where.

So ypu had 4 good years before 2005 you were 3rd and 2nd in 06 IN 07 you only won because of Mclarens stupid penalty we were the better car and team in 2007 and in 2008 we were very close but Ferrari won.

So you had 4 good years in Formula 1.

1984 - Mclaren wins 12 of 16 races Ferrari win 1
1985 - Mclaren win 6 6 of 10 races Ferrari wins 2
1986 - Williams Wins 9 races Mclaren 4 Lotus 2 and Ferrari none.
1987 - Williams wins 9, Mclaren 3, Lotus 2, and Ferrari 2 again as in 1986 Ferrari finish 4th
1988 - Mclaren 15 Wins, 25 Podiums and 15 Poles Ferrari manage 1 win if one Mclaren didn't win the other did apart from in Monza.
1989 - Mclaren 10 Wins Williams 2 Ferrari 3
1990 - Mclaren 6 wins Ferrari 6 Mclaren wins
1991 - Mclaren 8 Wins Willaims 7, Ferrari none

So we had 4 good years too 88-91 and were the most scsefull team of the 80s and Williams were the most successful team of the 90s

all in all Ferrari has 8 more titles than Mclaren but only 2 more Driver titles

6 of which were before Mclaren joined F1 so comparing only years where Mclaren participated alongside Ferrari

Ferrari have 9 WDC compared to Mclaren's 12
Ferrari have 14(13) Constructors compared to 8(9) for Mclaren

Well again you got that one wrong. Ferrari has 15 WDC compared to McLaren's 12. Ferrari has 3 more than McLaren. Where do you get your deluded information from?????????????? And in 2007 McLaren cheated so Ferrari won fair and square. Now you have made a nice comparison of the 80s, 90s and 2000s, summing up that McLaren were the team of the 80s, Williams that of the 90s and Ferrari that of the 2000s. I am in a bit of a rush but I will get all that stats of the 70s now and I am quite sure that in that era Ferrari were the number 1 team. You'll here back from me shortly.

[AKR]

Let´s put it this way,
The only thing that Macca fans really have is this story they made up at the "Mclaren losers festival" where they claim that FIA favours Ferrari. The only way you can look at this is that they have gone threw the facts and realised that they lost and the only way out is to make something up! PERIOD
A team have to be weak if they have to go and steal technical information from their rival. I can only imagine the pressure Mercedes is putting on them so I can kinda understand that they really are getting desperate.........Poor Mclaren.....

Your a good man. I like you.

[AKR]

the only thing Rightful about Ferrari is the stupidity of its lambs.... rightfully STFU with this right BS

Well clearly I know far too much (which is fact and you know it) to be one of those lambs, the other Ferrari supporters on this forum seem to know a lot as well, so who exacly are these lambs you refer to?

anyone who thinks their team has a "rightful place" pretty much sounds like some obsessive extremist lamb fanatic to me

You have no idea!

[McLaren Fan]

It's also worth noting that teams go through bad patches. In the mid-1990s, McLaren struggled because they couldn't find a good engine supplier. Since 2000, the team couldn't take the extra step and win titles because of internal politics: the Technology Centre was being built and for some time some of the McLaren Group's possessions were in storage; Adrian Newey wasn't doing his job properly, was allowed free reign on artistic car designs and wanted to design boats; Mercedes were increasing their shareholding in McLaren; and in 2001, Paul Morgan died, and then Mercedes took over Ilmor; so all of this was bound to be unsettling. Since these matters have been gradually dealt with, McLaren's performance has improved.

And that is Ferrari's fault because.............?

Don't be so presumptuous. I didn't suggest it was Ferrari's fault. All I'm saying is that McLaren has had some internal sorting out to do in the last while. Ross Brawn himself said that in Ferrari's era of domination, they actually produced some pretty average cars, but were still able to win titles because the competition was so poor. Ferrari won't be getting their own way in future, then.

[Gaz]

"Ever had and Will" - there you go again with your stupid childish insults because ferrari will never be suppased well one day it might happen don't be so deluded

2000 - Schui/Ferrari Wins - Mclaren Drivers finish 2nd and 3rd 8points in constructors hardly untouchable

2001 - This was a good year for Ferrari but hardly the dominance the 1988 Mclaren showed

2002 - Ferrari's best year but 2 wins of matching Mclarens Mp4/4

2003 - Close year between Kimi and Schui if the Mclaren was more reliable would of been Kimi's title.

2004 - Another great year for Ferrari - Mclaren were no where.

So ypu had 4 good years before 2005 you were 3rd and 2nd in 06 IN 07 you only won because of Mclarens stupid penalty we were the better car and team in 2007 and in 2008 we were very close but Ferrari won.

So you had 4 good years in Formula 1.

1984 - Mclaren wins 12 of 16 races Ferrari win 1
1985 - Mclaren win 6 6 of 10 races Ferrari wins 2
1986 - Williams Wins 9 races Mclaren 4 Lotus 2 and Ferrari none.
1987 - Williams wins 9, Mclaren 3, Lotus 2, and Ferrari 2 again as in 1986 Ferrari finish 4th
1988 - Mclaren 15 Wins, 25 Podiums and 15 Poles Ferrari manage 1 win if one Mclaren didn't win the other did apart from in Monza.
1989 - Mclaren 10 Wins Williams 2 Ferrari 3
1990 - Mclaren 6 wins Ferrari 6 Mclaren wins
1991 - Mclaren 8 Wins Willaims 7, Ferrari none

So we had 4 good years too 88-91 and were the most scsefull team of the 80s and Williams were the most successful team of the 90s

all in all Ferrari has 8 more titles than Mclaren but only 2 more Driver titles

6 of which were before Mclaren joined F1so comparing only years where Mclaren participated alongside Ferrari

Ferrari have 9 WDC compared to Mclaren's 12
Ferrari have 14(13) Constructors compared to 8(9) for Mclaren

Well again you got that one wrong. Ferrari has 15 WDC compared to McLaren's 12. Ferrari has 3 more than McLaren. Where do you get your deluded information from?????????????? And in 2007 McLaren cheated so Ferrari won fair and square. Now you have made a nice comparison of the 80s, 90s and 2000s, summing up that McLaren were the team of the 80s, Williams that of the 90s and Ferrari that of the 2000s. I am in a bit of a rush but I will get all that stats of the 70s now and I am quite sure that in that era Ferrari were the number 1 team. You'll here back from me shortly.

Yes i know they have 15 WDC's but they only have won 9 since Mclaren joined read my post before taking a shot at me eh?

Mclaren have won 12 WDC's in the time they have been competing against Ferrari and Ferrari have 9 you can't compare Mclaren and Ferrari when Mclaren wasn't even a team. so Mclaren is better


And in the 70s

Lotus and Ferrari were matched on Constructors championships

But in the 60's Lotus was the better team

[f1ea]

c'mon, even Ron Dennis says Mclaren is trying to catch up with Ferrari. (see the article about ron Dennis desire to get more involved in developing road cars).

Mclaren have had good seasons and good cars, but nothing comparable to Ferrari's F1 history. Its nothing to be ashamed of though, Mclaren is and operates as a smaller 'machine'... just think about this: Mclaren glory days seem to be more related to the driver rather than the team. In fact, had the F2008 been just a little bit less sensitive it would have absolutely destroyed the competition, and that is a huge deal in this age's F1.

[AKR]

Yes i know they have 15 WDC's but they only have won 9 since Mclaren joined read my post before taking a shot at me eh?

Mclaren have won 12 WDC's in the time they have been competing against Ferrari and Ferrari have 9 you can't compare Mclaren and Ferrari when Mclaren wasn't even a team. so Mclaren is better


And in the 70s

Lotus and Ferrari were matched on Constructors championships

But in the 60's Lotus was the better team

I count Ferrari from when they started winning titles. I don't care if McLaren were there or not. Ferrari have won more so Ferrari are better. That is once again your sad ways to try and twist the facts around to make McLaren look better when they are not.

Umm Lotus? Who cares about Lotus. Isn't this about Ferrari Vs McLaren? Why don't you just add Williams then in the equation. So since you know Ferrari was better than McLaren in the 70s then I don't need to show any stats. Ferrari were better than McLaren in the 70s simple as that. Lotus were matched to Ferrari like you said. Good but Lotus is irrelevant to this conversation.

Face Ferrari owns all records in F1 and will continue to do so. Infact McLaren's records will soon come to a staggernising halt once they become Mercedes and thus the records will be new records as Mercedes or continue from Mercedes' own records that ended when they stopped racing as a complete constructor. It will be a similar scenario to when Renault took over Benetton. All Benetton records ended and new Renault ones started or continued from when Renault were last in as a constructors in 1980s. Face it Ferrari is like God in F1. We rule it supreme or like with an iron fist.

[bud]

that is more fun than hearing another Ferrari is great allah akbar la la la la la AKR post

[AKR]

:banghead:


that is more fun than hearing another Ferrari is great allah akbar la la la la la AKR post

Ferrari is great. Your team is always going to be second best to us. I will write that word bigger incase you don't understand. SECOND BEST TO FERRARI. Deal with it Brad.