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[MAD MAX]

Ferrari and McLaren are the only two that don't. I would like to hear all the transmissions, too, as I think that hearing the conversations between the driver and his engineer adds another interesting factor to watching races.

Well I have heard Mclaren transmissions, ok mostly with Lewis but I haven't heard a peep from the Ferrari's

[Denthúl]

Everyone involved in F1 knows it's a BS rule, They have never enforced it and hopefully they never will.

It's entirely dependent on the circumstances. If you ask one guy to pull over for another, slower guy in, say, only the third round of the championship, then it totally takes away from the racing and is, to be honest, insulting to the guy who's worked his way in to a good position only to be told "right, you've done the hard work, now pull over". It's ridiculous! When it matters for the championship and is then a logical decision, I find it acceptable, but the way that teams used to use team orders was ridiculous!

[McLaren Fan]

They should just do what they did with traction control and launch control: legalise it, for the banned is nigh impossible to uphold.

[7UpJordan]

I think the team orders were introduced to stop repeats of Austria 2001 and 2002 from happening when Rubens was told to move over.

[csrracer]

Everyone involved in F1 knows it's a BS rule, They have never enforced it and hopefully they never will.

It's entirely dependent on the circumstances. If you ask one guy to pull over for another, slower guy in, say, only the third round of the championship, then it totally takes away from the racing and is, to be honest, insulting to the guy who's worked his way in to a good position only to be told "right, you've done the hard work, now pull over". It's ridiculous! When it matters for the championship and is then a logical decision, I find it acceptable, but the way that teams used to use team orders was ridiculous!

Points always count for the championship, regardless if it's the first race or the last race of the season. The teams will do whatever it takes to win the driver's championship or the team championship.(that is what their sponsors want them to do) If they think their best strategy is to favor one driver all year, than that is their own business and is an impossible rule to enforce, and that's why it's not enforced. I don't like it, because it takes away from the racing and it isn't fair for the faster driver that has to pull over for the slower driver. The rule is in place so teams don't make their "Team Orders" look obvious, ie Schumacher/Barichello, it's not there to actually be enforced.

[Denthúl]

Everyone involved in F1 knows it's a BS rule, They have never enforced it and hopefully they never will.

It's entirely dependent on the circumstances. If you ask one guy to pull over for another, slower guy in, say, only the third round of the championship, then it totally takes away from the racing and is, to be honest, insulting to the guy who's worked his way in to a good position only to be told "right, you've done the hard work, now pull over". It's ridiculous! When it matters for the championship and is then a logical decision, I find it acceptable, but the way that teams used to use team orders was ridiculous!

Points always count for the championship, regardless if it's the first race or the last race of the season. The teams will do whatever it takes to win the driver's championship or the team championship.(that is what their sponsors want them to do) If they think their best strategy is to favor one driver all year, than that is their own business and is an impossible rule to enforce, and that's why it's not enforced. I don't like it, because it takes away from the racing and it isn't fair for the faster driver that has to pull over for the slower driver. The rule is in place so teams don't make their "Team Orders" look obvious, ie Schumacher/Barichello, it's not there to actually be enforced.

It's still unfair on the guy who has a good chance of winning the championship, does all the hard work, then gets told to give it up. That's not racing, that's a manufactured champion, albeit in a different way to the one we could end up with this year.

[csrracer]

Everyone involved in F1 knows it's a BS rule, They have never enforced it and hopefully they never will.

It's entirely dependent on the circumstances. If you ask one guy to pull over for another, slower guy in, say, only the third round of the championship, then it totally takes away from the racing and is, to be honest, insulting to the guy who's worked his way in to a good position only to be told "right, you've done the hard work, now pull over". It's ridiculous! When it matters for the championship and is then a logical decision, I find it acceptable, but the way that teams used to use team orders was ridiculous!

Points always count for the championship, regardless if it's the first race or the last race of the season. The teams will do whatever it takes to win the driver's championship or the team championship.(that is what their sponsors want them to do) If they think their best strategy is to favor one driver all year, than that is their own business and is an impossible rule to enforce, and that's why it's not enforced. I don't like it, because it takes away from the racing and it isn't fair for the faster driver that has to pull over for the slower driver. The rule is in place so teams don't make their "Team Orders" look obvious, ie Schumacher/Barichello, it's not there to actually be enforced.

It's still unfair on the guy who has a good chance of winning the championship, does all the hard work, then gets told to give it up. That's not racing, that's a manufactured champion, albeit in a different way to the one we could end up with this year.

They are still only swapping points within their own team, If they had their number 2 driver's out blocking or running into other teams then they would be manufacturing a championship, and FIA might take notice because manufacturing a championship is their job.

[Denthúl]

Everyone involved in F1 knows it's a BS rule, They have never enforced it and hopefully they never will.

It's entirely dependent on the circumstances. If you ask one guy to pull over for another, slower guy in, say, only the third round of the championship, then it totally takes away from the racing and is, to be honest, insulting to the guy who's worked his way in to a good position only to be told "right, you've done the hard work, now pull over". It's ridiculous! When it matters for the championship and is then a logical decision, I find it acceptable, but the way that teams used to use team orders was ridiculous!

Points always count for the championship, regardless if it's the first race or the last race of the season. The teams will do whatever it takes to win the driver's championship or the team championship.(that is what their sponsors want them to do) If they think their best strategy is to favor one driver all year, than that is their own business and is an impossible rule to enforce, and that's why it's not enforced. I don't like it, because it takes away from the racing and it isn't fair for the faster driver that has to pull over for the slower driver. The rule is in place so teams don't make their "Team Orders" look obvious, ie Schumacher/Barichello, it's not there to actually be enforced.

It's still unfair on the guy who has a good chance of winning the championship, does all the hard work, then gets told to give it up. That's not racing, that's a manufactured champion, albeit in a different way to the one we could end up with this year.

They are still only swapping points within their own team, If they had their number 2 driver's out blocking or running into other teams then they would be manufacturing a championship, and FIA might take notice because manufacturing a championship is their job.

It's still manufacturing a champion, no matter how you look at it. If team orders were taken out of it, the 'number one' wouldn't have such an easy ride to the title and then things would be much better to watch and it would actually be proper racing.

[csrracer]

That's a wonderful thought in theory, and yes it would make racing exciting, (Senna / Prost). But it usually ends up with drivers hating each other (Senna / Prost... Hamilton / Alonso) and could end up with driver's taking each other out of races (Senna / Prost) or one driver ruining the teams chance for a championship ( Hamilton / Alonso).

[Denthúl]

That's a wonderful thought in theory, and yes it would make racing exciting, (Senna / Prost). But it usually ends up with drivers hating each other (Senna / Prost... Hamilton / Alonso) and could end up with driver's taking each other out of races (Senna / Prost) or one driver ruining the teams chance for a championship ( Hamilton / Alonso).

It also leads to drivers never having the chances they deserve.

[csrracer]

I don't believe any team would hold back their number 2 driver all year if he was consistently faster than their number 1 driver, it wouldn't make any sense. That is why the teams usually let the season get underway before they start pulling team orders in favor of whoever has a better chance at the championship.

[Denthúl]

I don't believe any team would hold back their number 2 driver all year if he was consistently faster than their number 1 driver, it wouldn't make any sense. That is why the teams usually let the season get underway before they start pulling team orders in favor of whoever has a better chance at the championship.

Rubens was more than occasionally a match for Schumacher. Irvine had plenty of potential for it, too. I wouldn't say that they could be better out-right, but there were certainly times when you got the impression that they were, indeed, being held back. Rubens and Eddie both admitted that it was in their contract!

[csrracer]

I don't believe any team would hold back their number 2 driver all year if he was consistently faster than their number 1 driver, it wouldn't make any sense. That is why the teams usually let the season get underway before they start pulling team orders in favor of whoever has a better chance at the championship.

Rubens was more than occasionally a match for Schumacher. Irvine had plenty of potential for it, too. I wouldn't say that they could be better out-right, but there were certainly times when you got the impression that they were, indeed, being held back. Rubens and Eddie both admitted that it was in their contract!

I agree, it always upset me when Barichello was not allowed to beat Schumacher, but if I was paying Schumacher's
salary I too would want to do anything possible to help his chances at a championship.
I can't seem to find the Stats on how many times Schumacher was outqualified by Barichello or Irvine but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't to often.

[csrracer]

I did get a good chuckle when Schumacher slowed down in the 2002 USA race to let Barichello catch up so they could cross the finish line close to each other for the "photo opportunity" , and Barichello, to Schumacher's surprise, beat him to the line.

[McLaren Fan]

As I said on this forum before, Formula One has two or three paradoxes at its heart. Nobody is correct here, really. On one hand, Formula One is meant to be a team sport, so it follows that team orders, one-two systems and the like are fine. On the other hand, Formula One is meant to be about the best drivers competing in the highest class of motorsport to win the world championship, so the corollary of this is that team orders are against the ethos of the sport. What you believe is right depends on how you try to reconcile these two contradictions. My own view is basically the McLaren point of view, which has some elements of hybridity to it. You should give both your drivers an equal opportunity to go for the title and avoid team orders as much as you can (for there is no complete way around them: one driver is going to have to carry more fuel etc.), and should one driver fall out of contention for the title, he then backs his teammate's aspirations. Although both drivers are pushing hard to win and that has benefits in the constructors' title, bust-ups are not uncommon. You need to look no further than McLaren for that: Lauda and Prost; Prost and Senna; and Hamilton and Alonso. This way is by no means perfect, then, but I feel it fulfills the criteria on Formula One, i.e. that it is both a team and driver orientated sport.