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[Hanwombat]

In your little world is the slower car supposed to hold up the faster team mate?

This wasn't the case at all. Kimi was way faster than Massa during the entire race. Massa wasn't the faster car at all. He was behind Kimi because he was slower and he remained slower for the entire event. Therefore, it wasn't at all a situation of a slower car holding up a faster car. It was a situation of a guy with no chance at the championship being ahead of a guy with a real shot at it, and nothing more. Again, and I can't stress this enough, Massa was the slower teammate here. He wasn't being held up by Kimi at all.

To clarify, I'm not sitting here condemning the position swap. Team orders have always been part of F1 and the rule forbidding them is ridiculous. Ferrari shouldn't have to put on theatrics to make it appear that the pass was simply an issue of Massa managing to catch up with Kimi and pass him, and no other team in this situation should have to resort to theatrics either, whether it was McLaren, BMW, Red Bull, or whoever. We all knew the switch had to happen and we all knew it was going to happen, and it was the logical move to make, and there shouldn't be a rule prohibiting team orders for it.

I liked the comments about it while watching it on Speed. I got a few laughs from the sarcastic enthusiasm over Massa's miraculous overtaking.

I think you quoted me out of context I was replying to jsonf1 who was saying it was wrong for HK to let LH go through, when it was obvious that LH was much faster. (More undeserved Mclaren bashing)
I don't think the rule has ever been enforced, and I don't think it should ever be enforced, it's a stupid rule. If Any team wants one driver to pull over, then let them pull over, The teams are the ones spending the money and if they choose their number one driver before the season ever starts, then that's their own business.

Then why was Heikki so mad about it? Right after the race the first comments he gave was something like "Why am I not allowed to race?". Ofcourse after a short chat with Ron, Heikki felt completely different for some reason

Link to that? I have to say, I pay a lot of attention to Heikki so I can't really understand how I'd have missed that.

Seems like you don´t pay enough of attention to it. As a Finn I have 2 drivers who I read about in the newspaper nearly everyday, Still remember how swetty Heikki was when he gave his comments about the race This was right after the race and 5 minutes later it seemed like Heikki forgot all about that. And trust me, if you want to compete about who knows more about Heikki or Kimi the the show is ON

[csrracer]

In your little world is the slower car supposed to hold up the faster team mate?

This wasn't the case at all. Kimi was way faster than Massa during the entire race. Massa wasn't the faster car at all. He was behind Kimi because he was slower and he remained slower for the entire event. Therefore, it wasn't at all a situation of a slower car holding up a faster car. It was a situation of a guy with no chance at the championship being ahead of a guy with a real shot at it, and nothing more. Again, and I can't stress this enough, Massa was the slower teammate here. He wasn't being held up by Kimi at all.

To clarify, I'm not sitting here condemning the position swap. Team orders have always been part of F1 and the rule forbidding them is ridiculous. Ferrari shouldn't have to put on theatrics to make it appear that the pass was simply an issue of Massa managing to catch up with Kimi and pass him, and no other team in this situation should have to resort to theatrics either, whether it was McLaren, BMW, Red Bull, or whoever. We all knew the switch had to happen and we all knew it was going to happen, and it was the logical move to make, and there shouldn't be a rule prohibiting team orders for it.

I liked the comments about it while watching it on Speed. I got a few laughs from the sarcastic enthusiasm over Massa's miraculous overtaking.

I think you quoted me out of context I was replying to jsonf1 who was saying it was wrong for HK to let LH go through, when it was obvious that LH was much faster. (More undeserved Mclaren bashing)
I don't think the rule has ever been enforced, and I don't think it should ever be enforced, it's a stupid rule. If Any team wants one driver to pull over, then let them pull over, The teams are the ones spending the money and if they choose their number one driver before the season ever starts, then that's their own business.

Then why was Heikki so mad about it? Right after the race the first comments he gave was something like "Why am I not allowed to race?". Ofcourse after a short chat with Ron, Heikki felt completely different for some reason

I don't know what Heikki said after the race,and I don't care. If he was as fast as Lewis he should have gotten behind him and followed him into 2nd place, but on the day he didn't have the speed that lewis did, So why as a team owner would you want to relegate your drivers to a third and fourth place finish as opposed to a first and fourth place finish? That would make for some very bad team management.

[jsonf1]

In your little world is the slower car supposed to hold up the faster team mate?

This wasn't the case at all. Kimi was way faster than Massa during the entire race. Massa wasn't the faster car at all. He was behind Kimi because he was slower and he remained slower for the entire event. Therefore, it wasn't at all a situation of a slower car holding up a faster car. It was a situation of a guy with no chance at the championship being ahead of a guy with a real shot at it, and nothing more. Again, and I can't stress this enough, Massa was the slower teammate here. He wasn't being held up by Kimi at all.

To clarify, I'm not sitting here condemning the position swap. Team orders have always been part of F1 and the rule forbidding them is ridiculous. Ferrari shouldn't have to put on theatrics to make it appear that the pass was simply an issue of Massa managing to catch up with Kimi and pass him, and no other team in this situation should have to resort to theatrics either, whether it was McLaren, BMW, Red Bull, or whoever. We all knew the switch had to happen and we all knew it was going to happen, and it was the logical move to make, and there shouldn't be a rule prohibiting team orders for it.

I liked the comments about it while watching it on Speed. I got a few laughs from the sarcastic enthusiasm over Massa's miraculous overtaking.

I think you quoted me out of context I was replying to jsonf1 who was saying it was wrong for HK to let LH go through, when it was obvious that LH was much faster. (More undeserved Mclaren bashing)
I don't think the rule has ever been enforced, and I don't think it should ever be enforced, it's a stupid rule. If Any team wants one driver to pull over, then let them pull over, The teams are the ones spending the money and if they choose their number one driver before the season ever starts, then that's their own business.

Then why was Heikki so mad about it? Right after the race the first comments he gave was something like "Why am I not allowed to race?". Ofcourse after a short chat with Ron, Heikki felt completely different for some reason

I don't know what Heikki said after the race,and I don't care. If he was as fast as Lewis he should have gotten behind him and followed him into 2nd place, but on the day he didn't have the speed that lewis did, So why as a team owner would you want to relegate your drivers to a third and fourth place finish as opposed to a first and fourth place finish? That would make for some very bad team management.

BINGO
That IS EXACTLY what is against the rules

[csrracer]

JsonF1
I think everyone including the teams the drivers and FIA knows it's a BS rule. The only people who don't know this are the fans of the drivers that have to pull over. If the tables were turned and Lewis was holding up Heikki you would be yelling at your TV for Lewis to let him go after the Ferrari and ultimately the race win. It's a bummer when the driver you support has to concede the position, but that is all part of Team racing in a points championship series. Think about a penalty kick in soccer, you let your best penalty kicker take the kick, not necessarily the person who draws the fowl. It's all about what is best for the team.

[jsonf1]

JsonF1
I think everyone including the teams the drivers and FIA knows it's a BS rule. The only people who don't know this are the fans of the drivers that have to pull over. If the tables were turned and Lewis was holding up Heikki you would be yelling at your TV for Lewis to let him go after the Ferrari and ultimately the race win. It's a bummer when the driver you support has to concede the position, but that is all part of Team racing in a points championship series. Think about a penalty kick in soccer, you let your best penalty kicker take the kick, not necessarily the person who draws the fowl. It's all about what is best for the team.

The thing is that rules are rules. Some you like some you don´t. What is the point with making rules if you don´t have to follow them? I´m a 100% Kubica fan without a doubt and honestly the 2 Finns can do whatever the h*** they want as long is it stays within the rules. The thing is that I was a Macca fan for a loooooong time (After Senna left us R.I.P Senna ) but honestly I think that the team started heading in the wrong direction at some point and all of a sudden I couldn´t stand the team anymore, I mean honestly I started HATING it. They just did everything the way it shouldn´t be done and things haven´t changed........

[csrracer]

jsonF1
If anything during that race Heikki should have thanked Ron Dennis for not pitting them both and the same time and making Heikki wait. Instead he brought Heikki in, and took the chance on Lewis catching up on the race track it was a huge risk to take and Heikki has nothing to complain about.

[csrracer]

The thing is that rules are rules. Some you like some you don´t. What is the point with making rules if you don´t have to follow them? I´m a 100% Kubica fan without a doubt and honestly the 2 Finns can do whatever the h*** they want as long is it stays within the rules.

I agree with you for the most part, all teams should have to abide by all the rules regardless, But the team order rule was only put into place so the teams would not do what Schumacher and Barichello where doing race after race and making "Team Orders" look so obvious. It is a BS rule and everyone in F1 knows it and hopefully it never gets enforced.

[stonemonkey]

Something's that not been mentioned is that in a fight for position both cars can be slowed down, the leading car having to go defensive. That can allow cars behind to close in which is why sometimes a driver is told to let someone pass even from a different team when it's inevitable that the pass is going to happen at some point, no point in losing more time than you have to and falling prey to someone further back that wouldn't catch you otherwise.

[csrracer]

Well put, It's all just a part of "Race Strategy" and shouldn't even be a rule.

[Denthúl]

Well put, It's all just a part of "Race Strategy" and shouldn't even be a rule.

In the case of the Austria incident, it very much should be a rule.

[csrracer]

Well put, It's all just a part of "Race Strategy" and shouldn't even be a rule.

In the case of the Austria incident, it very much should be a rule.

It should never be a rule it's absurd and unrealistic.

[Denthúl]

Well put, It's all just a part of "Race Strategy" and shouldn't even be a rule.

In the case of the Austria incident, it very much should be a rule.

It should never be a rule it's absurd and unrealistic.

I'm sorry, but when both drivers have a good chance of winning the championship, it's ridiculous and completely unfair to choose one over the other, which is exactly what Ferrari did. When they lured Barrichello, they'd already decided that if they were to take the championship in 2000, it would be Schumacher and not Barrichello who would win it for them. Same with the next year, and the next, and the next (and the next if they hadn't been so uncompetitive). That is where team orders are unacceptable. I have no quarrel with it when it really is the only realistic option, but the Schumacher/Barrichello (and Schumacher/Irvine) situations were not so. It was already decided before any of the seasons at hand got under way.

[darwin dali]

JsonF1
I think everyone including the teams the drivers and FIA knows it's a BS rule. The only people who don't know this are the fans of the drivers that have to pull over. If the tables were turned and Lewis was holding up Heikki you would be yelling at your TV for Lewis to let him go after the Ferrari and ultimately the race win. It's a bummer when the driver you support has to concede the position, but that is all part of Team racing in a points championship series. Think about a penalty kick in soccer, you let your best penalty kicker take the kick, not necessarily the person who draws the fowl. It's all about what is best for the team.

Doesn't the player fouled in basketball have to throw the free throws?

[darwin dali]

In your little world is the slower car supposed to hold up the faster team mate?

This wasn't the case at all. Kimi was way faster than Massa during the entire race. Massa wasn't the faster car at all. He was behind Kimi because he was slower and he remained slower for the entire event. Therefore, it wasn't at all a situation of a slower car holding up a faster car. It was a situation of a guy with no chance at the championship being ahead of a guy with a real shot at it, and nothing more. Again, and I can't stress this enough, Massa was the slower teammate here. He wasn't being held up by Kimi at all.

To clarify, I'm not sitting here condemning the position swap. Team orders have always been part of F1 and the rule forbidding them is ridiculous. Ferrari shouldn't have to put on theatrics to make it appear that the pass was simply an issue of Massa managing to catch up with Kimi and pass him, and no other team in this situation should have to resort to theatrics either, whether it was McLaren, BMW, Red Bull, or whoever. We all knew the switch had to happen and we all knew it was going to happen, and it was the logical move to make, and there shouldn't be a rule prohibiting team orders for it.

I liked the comments about it while watching it on Speed. I got a few laughs from the sarcastic enthusiasm over Massa's miraculous overtaking.

I think you quoted me out of context I was replying to jsonf1 who was saying it was wrong for HK to let LH go through, when it was obvious that LH was much faster. (More undeserved Mclaren bashing)
I don't think the rule has ever been enforced, and I don't think it should ever be enforced, it's a stupid rule. If Any team wants one driver to pull over, then let them pull over, The teams are the ones spending the money and if they choose their number one driver before the season ever starts, then that's their own business.

Then why was Heikki so mad about it? Right after the race the first comments he gave was something like "Why am I not allowed to race?". Ofcourse after a short chat with Ron, Heikki felt completely different for some reason

Link to that? I have to say, I pay a lot of attention to Heikki so I can't really understand how I'd have missed that.

Seems like you don´t pay enough of attention to it. As a Finn I have 2 drivers who I read about in the newspaper nearly everyday, Still remember how swetty Heikki was when he gave his comments about the race This was right after the race and 5 minutes later it seemed like Heikki forgot all about that. And trust me, if you want to compete about who knows more about Heikki or Kimi the the show is ON

Well, you have the instant advantage - I can't read Finnish newspapers! I just see lots of double-vowels and letters with a pair of dots above them (don't remember the name)

umlaut

[darwin dali]

Well put, It's all just a part of "Race Strategy" and shouldn't even be a rule.

In the case of the Austria incident, it very much should be a rule.

Ah, a special rule for Ferrari, eh? FIA bias anybody? Against Ferrari that is...