all McLaren Fan is saying is that a drivers achievements are down to the team behind the driver. the drivers results are just the pinnacle of alot of peoples hard work.
Not least their own. And to penalise everybody in the team would be wrong when the mistake is not down to everyone within the team, but perhaps two or three people. Else, the team's other driver, being part of the team, should receive some kind of penalty to go along with it. As it stands, giving Massa a grid-drop or even disqualification (though that would be highly unlikely given the relatively small infraction that incurred) would affect everybody in the team except Raikkonen, would would not suffer from Massa's fate. If you're going to be adamant about punishing the team as a whole, then both drivers surely have to be covered by that, no?
Otherwise, it's not fair on the guys who sit on the pit wall and have nothing to do with what actually goes on within the box. The guys back at the factories who work so hard on the cars yet don't attend the Grand Prix weekend. You have to consider these things very carefully, and place accountability at varying levels. The problem there, however, is that in this case Ferrari don't exactly have anybody they can hold accountable, because their system is electronic rather than a guy standing with a lollipop.
I understand what is being said, I'm just pointing out that it's very hard to actually make this kind of punisment a fair one, because there are a lot of innocent parties that would be affected by it.
Denthúl, you are one of the most amicable people on this forum, but in the last day or two, a rather pompous and arrogant streak within you has reared its head. Taking the huff and twisting somebody's point because that person doesn't agree with you is rather childish.
all McLaren Fan is saying is that a drivers achievements are down to the team behind the driver. the drivers results are just the pinnacle of alot of peoples hard work.
Back on topic, you could also apply Denthúl's logic to the constructors' title. Why should all the mechanics, engineers, management etc. lose out because of a driver's mistake? As bud has pointed out, drivers' success is only the result of a lot of hard work by a lot of people (which is the main reason why I feel the constructors' championship is more meaningful and the most important) and Formula One is about on-track performance. Therefore, as in this case, for instance, if a team releases their driver from the pits when they really shouldn't, the driver has to be punished for this ill-gotten advantage, which will have a negative effect on his team anyway.
I realise this, and there is nothing incorrect about it being a team thing.
However, it's still unfair to penalise people who don't have control over something, or at least not in the huge manner that was being talked about, i.e. Massa being stripped of his victory.
And in this particular scenario, it's not like you can say that the team let him go purposefully to get him ahead of Sutil - the system works off all the buttons on the equipment being pressed and the rest is automatic. This highlights once more the flaw in the Ferrari system. It would be more logical to assume that they had actually intended to gain an advantage here if there was a lollipop man, rather than a machine. It's one of the reasons I dislike it, as nobody can be held accountable in such situations (and it makes for an excellent defence in this kind of case), but the reality is that it was simply accidental which is why I felt that, rather than giving him a drive-through, stop and go or time penalty after the race, there should be a fine and a banning of that system.
As for twisting someone's point because they don't agree with me, that's not what I'm doing. I'm trying to show that if you're going to put a penalty on the entire team for the actions of one or two, then it is only fair that it affects the
entire team and not just most of it. Which is, again, why there are so many points you can raise on either side of an argument when it comes to penalties. Unfortunately, there is no way of it being perfect, because things are so inter-linked within a team environment. However, refinement would at least help to penalise only the parties involved, to make it fairer.
