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[Zekenwolf]

OK, we will wait and see.

I am not arguing with the fact that Hamilton is a good driver but he is not an exceptional one like he is sometimes made out to be. Likewise, I feel that Vettel is a more talented driver than what people are prepared to give him credit for.

As for personal likes and dislikes, it is often the case with sporting stars - quite often you can like them or dislike them for reasons of your own. Arguing about such things is what makes a forum like this. I freely admit that I have never liked Hamilton from the start and that feeling has not changed but these days he seems to have matured a bit more as an individual. But his public statements almost always come across as carefully rehearsed, unintelligent and lacking in spontaneity.

[racechick]

I'd say Hamilton is an exceptional driver. That you do t like him comes over loud and clear....that's fine, it's your opinion. But calling him a simpleton? Brawn would disagree, he finds him easy to work with and intelligent.

You graciously acquiesce that Hamilton has 'matured' , into an unintelligent PR man who lacks spontaneity. Really? Hamilton? The guy who wears his heart on his sleeve? Is that the best insult you could find? Did you prefer the less mature, less guarded spontaneous Hamilton who made an Ali G joke and texted data about his front wing when he was given one a sevond slower than his team mate? That Hamilton took a lot of stick for being 'spontaneous'.

Anyway, this is the Vettel thread, so lets all look forward to seeing a 'mature' Vettel. One who doesn't do cuckoo signs at his teammate then run crying to Marco. Who doesn't call back markers cucumbers when he can't overtake them clearny, who doesn't steel wins from his team mate, who doesn't put himself above the team.

You see??

And like WB says there's nothing yet that says Vettel is special. Hamilton, Alonso, Rosberg and Kimi could most likely have done it that car( Button WB? )
Vettel is " a good driver but not an exceptional one"

[LewEngBridewell]

Anyway, this is the Vettel thread, so lets all look forward to seeing a 'mature' Vettel.

Mature? I'd say he's been VERY mature, what with all this stupid booing coming his way, every time he steps onto the podium. He handles it very well, more so than a lot of people would.

Imagine Lewis Hamilton getting all these boos EVERY SINGLE race. We'd see some tears, that's for sure. Yes, he does wear his heart on his sleeve, and a non-stop booing situation would bring out the worst of it.

[What's Burning?]

Anyway, this is the Vettel thread, so lets all look forward to seeing a 'mature' Vettel.

Mature? I'd say he's been VERY mature, what with all this stupid booing coming his way, every time he steps onto the podium. He handles it very well, more so than a lot of people would.

Imagine Lewis Hamilton getting all these boos EVERY SINGLE race. We'd see some tears, that's for sure. Yes, he does wear his heart on his sleeve, and a non-stop booing situation would bring out the worst of it.

Um... he's got 3 and 3/4 WDCs to his name... if he's getting booed, then he and his publicist and his manager and his agent need to ask themselves why.

Vettel is the kind of guy that likes to have it all, so if he's scratching his head as to why he's not the most liked guy on the grid even though he's clearly head an shoulders outperforming everyone else, he's not having it all... and maybe lacking that acceptance will go a long way towards him maturing. Reading Horner's comments in the media actually feels a little like "Daddy" and Veruca Salt.

I would be horrified if an idiot threw a beer bottle at a driver on the podium, but WTF are people going on about that they don't want people to boo? After they spent a couple of thousand dollars to go see a show? It sounds as bizarre a complaint to make as me saying Alonso is cheered too much at Monza and the Tifosi need to turn it down a bit because it makes drivers that don't driver for Ferrari feel bad. :jerckoffsmileyhere:

And I'm sorry RC, if the Button comment was a bit much, but he is a WDC so he deserves the benefit of the doubt. After all, it's a Red Bull car we're talking about.

[mnmracer]

So because no physical harm is done, we as a society should just accept any and all kinds of behavior?

[What's Burning?]

I'm a world champion making 25 million a year, woe is me for I feel unloved.

[racechick]

Imagine Lewis Hamilton getting all these boos EVERY SINGLE race. We'd see some tears, that's for sure. Yes, he does wear his heart on his sleeve, and a non-stop booing situation would bring out the worst of it.

Lewis has had plenty of opportunity to deal with ....how shall we put it? Discrimination? Bullying? Whatever. He learnt to deal with that as a child when he was bullied. Just because he wears his heart on his sleeve doesn't mean he can't cope with things. He can and he does. Remember the blacked up racist fans? He just brushed that off. Been there dealt with that.
And Vettel hasn't been booed EVERY SINGLE race. He's been booed since...multi21. I think the fans have been pretty patient all things considered.

[mnmracer]

I'm a world champion making 25 million a year, woe is me for I feel unloved.

So you are the type of person who treats people differently depending on their social status?
Classy.

Maybe that's why we seem to have such a misunderstanding between us. I guess I'm just different. My morals don't change depending on whether I'm talking to a hobo or a millionaire. I believe in common decency, regardless of social status.

[mnmracer]

And Vettel hasn't been booed EVERY SINGLE race. He's been booed since...multi21. I think the fans have been pretty patient all things considered.

And in Australia, which you may remember as the race after Webber ignored team-orders, for the second time in their history.
Multi21 is a pathetic excuse for people that are too afraid to admit how petty they are in booeing the guy that's been beating their heroes. If they were so morally grounded that they believed any of the elements of multi21 were unacceptable, we'd have heard this sort of consistent aimed booeing for years.

[What's Burning?]

I'm a world champion making 25 million a year, woe is me for I feel unloved.

So you are the type of person who treats people differently depending on their social status?
Classy.

Maybe that's why we seem to have such a misunderstanding between us. I guess I'm just different. My morals don't change depending on whether I'm talking to a hobo or a millionaire. I believe in common decency, regardless of social status.

So you're claiming I've got no morals because you're butt hurt that I don't like a driver you swoon over? Get real dude.

[LRW]

mnmracer, you seem to be getting quite wound up and upset over something that doesn't directly (or indirectly from what I can see) affect you.

You shouldn't let it get to you. It cant be good for you. Want a hug?

[1Lemon]

Imagine Lewis Hamilton getting all these boos EVERY SINGLE race. We'd see some tears, that's for sure. Yes, he does wear his heart on his sleeve, and a non-stop booing situation would bring out the worst of it.

Lewis has had plenty of opportunity to deal with ....how shall we put it? Discrimination? Bullying? Whatever. He learnt to deal with that as a child when he was bullied.

Do we know A) this for certain and B) that Vettel wasn't bullied as a kid?

[Zekenwolf]

WB, RC and some others try to make out Hamilton ans an 'exceptional driver' and Vettel not as one. What excatly is an exceptional driver? Most of it is based on your personal conjecture - to which you have every right to - but that does not make it the the truth. You might like to think so but repeated assertions to the effect do not make such beliefs fact. Just because you like someone, you cannot claim that he is better than the next man even though that next man has achieved better results.

Briefly on Hamilton since he was 'involved' in this arguement, those who like him have their right to do so. But I would like so say that I personally find all his public comments and all this "heart on his sleeve" stuff extremely cloying and artificial. It takes a certain amount of mental toughness to become an F1 driver and Hamilton is no exception; I frankly doubt if he himslef believes half the things he says (or advised to say) in public.

Getting back to Vettel, why should he be the one who has to prove himself to you people or anyone else? By contrast, have Hamilton, Alonso or any ofhte others who WB loftily claims could have won as many races in the Red Bull, proved it themselves doing just that? Until they do that the other side of the arguement remains as falt and baseless as conjectures about what Vettel could have achieved outside the Red Bull. The internal politics and team change shenanigans do not matter - the fans have no control over those things.

Hamilton had a relatively below par car in 2009 and being a good driver he won a couple of races but could get nowhere near the championship. Vettel had a below par car for the first half of 2012 but managed to win the WDC in it. I am NOT comparing the relative merits of those cars but merely using them as examples to illustrate that you cannot dismiss such statistics out of hand just because they do not support your belief.

Vettel is doing a good job with the tools that he has been given and that is all he can do. He does not go around claiming that he is better than any of his contemporaries but sticks to the job at hand and usually does well - and has the results to show for it. Perhaps if some other drivers stop moaning about what they could have achieved if they had been driving the Red Bull and concentrate on what they have at hand, they might achieve better results themselves.

RC claims that Vettel went "crying to Marko". Did some little bird tell her that or does she have any evidence of that event?

The entire platform of arguement of those who do not like Vettel is based on discrediting his genuine, on-table achievements thus far and hypothesising what Hamilton, Alonso or someone else could have achieved in a car that they have not driven so far. That kind of position is completely illogical.

PS: Why has this thread gone to discuss irrelevant things like social status, child bullying etc? Has nothing to do with F1 racing.

[Hammer278]

Wow, you guys got a lot of time to discuss about someone like Vettel. Looks like multi21 has done Vettel some good, people are actually talking about him now.

Just a question, why is this thread even here....shouldn't it be in the 'That's Driver'thread?

[Zekenwolf]

Just a question, why is this thread even here....shouldn't it be in the 'That's Driver'thread?

Good Point. I wonder if the mods would consider merging the posts with the regular Vettel thread?