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[andrew]

They'd have been better of with any of those rather than The Mouth. At least they're team players and can act with a bit of decorum.

In that case they should get rid of Vettel too - he isnt a team player either!

He's more of a team player than The Mouth.

[AngelOfDeath]

They'd have been better of with any of those rather than The Mouth. At least they're team players and can act with a bit of decorum.

In that case they should get rid of Vettel too - he isnt a team player either!

Young drivers want to give it their best, and ignore team orders.

[CookinFlat6]

They'd have been better of with any of those rather than The Mouth. At least they're team players and can act with a bit of decorum.

In that case they should get rid of Vettel too - he isnt a team player either!

Thing is if a driver is ordered to stay behind but is able to take the place then the guy in front should not be making a big deal or acting like a victim

When Button sneakily tried to cheat Lewis out of a win by ignoring team orders to maintain position, Lewis took the place back, (and should have nudged him off track for good measure IMHO)

When Vettel ignored team orders and grabbed the place Webber tried to take it back and couldnt so it wasnt his fault but Webbers.

Theres one thing complaining about been made to act like a number 2, like Massa, Barichello etc, but if you are not good enough to beat the number 1, then boo hoo

[operaman]

Mark has contributed heavily to 3 WCC's and has taken points from Vettel's rivals, contributing to 2 of his 3 WDC's (2011 Vettel didn't need much help at all). Not bad for a #2. I'll take the points and championships, you can have .... Ide.

[1Lemon]

They'd have been better of with any of those rather than The Mouth. At least they're team players and can act with a bit of decorum.

In that case they should get rid of Vettel too - he isnt a team player either!

Thing is if a driver is ordered to stay behind but is able to take the place then the guy in front should not be making a big deal or acting like a victim

When Button sneakily tried to cheat Lewis out of a win by ignoring team orders to maintain position, Lewis took the place back, (and should have nudged him off track for good measure IMHO)

When Vettel ignored team orders and grabbed the place Webber tried to take it back and couldnt so it wasnt his fault but Webbers.

Theres one thing complaining about been made to act like a number 2, like Massa, Barichello etc, but if you are not good enough to beat the number 1, then boo hoo

SO hang on.
Button was in the wrong for ignoring team orders, staying in front of Hamilton when told not to... Fair enough.
Vettel is not in the wrong for passing Webber when told not too. but instead is Webber's fault, it's Webbers fault for not attempting to pass his teammate on fresher tyres and a higher revving engine potentially taking both of them out?.... Urm.... Yeah.....Your argument here makes very little logical sense.

[racechick]

They'd have been better of with any of those rather than The Mouth. At least they're team players and can act with a bit of decorum.

In that case they should get rid of Vettel too - he isnt a team player either!

Thing is if a driver is ordered to stay behind but is able to take the place then the guy in front should not be making a big deal or acting like a victim

When Button sneakily tried to cheat Lewis out of a win by ignoring team orders to maintain position, Lewis took the place back, (and should have nudged him off track for good measure IMHO)

When Vettel ignored team orders and grabbed the place Webber tried to take it back and couldnt so it wasnt his fault but Webbers.

Theres one thing complaining about been made to act like a number 2, like Massa, Barichello etc, but if you are not good enough to beat the number 1, then boo hoo

SO hang on.
Button was in the wrong for ignoring team orders, staying in front of Hamilton when told not to... Fair enough.
Vettel is not in the wrong for passing Webber when told not too. but instead is Webber's fault, it's Webbers fault for not attempting to pass his teammate on fresher tyres and a higher revving engine potentially taking both of them out?.... Urm.... Yeah.....Your argument here makes very little logical sense.

button didn't stay in front of Hamilton, he passed him when told to turn engine down. Lewis was assured he wouldn't be passed if he turned his own engine down ...and he was, so he just took the place back.

[1Lemon]

Ok then got my facts a little crossed over there but my point stands, if not made more clear now.

Button and Vettel both passed Hamilton and Webber respectively (Not at the same time, that would be amazing to have some actual racing in F1 sometimes) when both Hammy and Webby had been told that they wouldn't be passed and turned down their engines.

So why is what Button did wrong and what Vettel did right?

[CookinFlat6]

They'd have been better of with any of those rather than The Mouth. At least they're team players and can act with a bit of decorum.

In that case they should get rid of Vettel too - he isnt a team player either!

Thing is if a driver is ordered to stay behind but is able to take the place then the guy in front should not be making a big deal or acting like a victim

When Button sneakily tried to cheat Lewis out of a win by ignoring team orders to maintain position, Lewis took the place back, (and should have nudged him off track for good measure IMHO)

When Vettel ignored team orders and grabbed the place Webber tried to take it back and couldnt so it wasnt his fault but Webbers.

Theres one thing complaining about been made to act like a number 2, like Massa, Barichello etc, but if you are not good enough to beat the number 1, then boo hoo

SO hang on.
Button was in the wrong for ignoring team orders, staying in front of Hamilton when told not to... Fair enough.
Vettel is not in the wrong for passing Webber when told not too. but instead is Webber's fault, it's Webbers fault for not attempting to pass his teammate on fresher tyres and a higher revving engine potentially taking both of them out?.... Urm.... Yeah.....Your argument here makes very little logical sense.

Button ahead of Lewis?

[1Lemon]

They'd have been better of with any of those rather than The Mouth. At least they're team players and can act with a bit of decorum.

In that case they should get rid of Vettel too - he isnt a team player either!

Thing is if a driver is ordered to stay behind but is able to take the place then the guy in front should not be making a big deal or acting like a victim

When Button sneakily tried to cheat Lewis out of a win by ignoring team orders to maintain position, Lewis took the place back, (and should have nudged him off track for good measure IMHO)

When Vettel ignored team orders and grabbed the place Webber tried to take it back and couldnt so it wasnt his fault but Webbers.

Theres one thing complaining about been made to act like a number 2, like Massa, Barichello etc, but if you are not good enough to beat the number 1, then boo hoo

SO hang on.
Button was in the wrong for ignoring team orders, staying in front of Hamilton when told not to... Fair enough.
Vettel is not in the wrong for passing Webber when told not too. but instead is Webber's fault, it's Webbers fault for not attempting to pass his teammate on fresher tyres and a higher revving engine potentially taking both of them out?.... Urm.... Yeah.....Your argument here makes very little logical sense.

Button ahead of Lewis?

Is a bit ambiguos, then RC nudged me incase you didn't notice then I remembered what order things happened in but my point still stands.

Also I'm sure that at Button's 8 wins when he was teammate with Hamilton, at no point was he ahead of He Who Is Too Great To Name.

[CookinFlat6]

Ok then got my facts a little crossed over there but my point stands, if not made more clear now.

Button and Vettel both passed Hamilton and Webber respectively (Not at the same time, that would be amazing to have some actual racing in F1 sometimes) when both Hammy and Webby had been told that they wouldn't be passed and turned down their engines.

So why is what Button did wrong and what Vettel did right?

with Button, he is not good enough to pass and stay ahead of Lewis even when Lewis was told to hold position

With Seb he is normally good enough to pass and stay ahead of Webber even if Webber was not told to hold position

So was trying to take something that didnt belong to him by cheating his teammate, whilst seb was taking something that belonged to him (also by cheating his teammate in a way but possesion is 90% of the law )

[PartsaS]

Button and Vettel both passed their teammates (while told not to).
Hamilton passed him back and they gave us a good show fighting each other
Webber couldn't overtake Vettel to gain his place back so he starts whining to the team and acting like an a^$&#le after the race.
Thats not nice behaviour from a man that couldn't win the race anyway, without T.O.

[andrew]

It's a race, not a Gentlemans club! A position doesn't belong to anyone until the checkered flag is waved.

[CookinFlat6]

Is a bit ambiguos, then RC nudged me incase you didn't notice then I remembered what order things happened in but my point still stands.

Also I'm sure that at Button's 8 wins when he was teammate with Hamilton, at no point was he ahead of He Who Is Too Great To Name.

Ha, you said it at last, thats who you meant all this time - TDG whose name should not be used in vain, for fear of being excommunicated as a blasphemer

Back to the duck (self confirmed by Button himself) the stats of last year say that when TDG and the Duck were both on track at the same time, TDG was ahead more than 80% of the time

[1Lemon]

Is a bit ambiguos, then RC nudged me incase you didn't notice then I remembered what order things happened in but my point still stands.

Also I'm sure that at Button's 8 wins when he was teammate with Hamilton, at no point was he ahead of He Who Is Too Great To Name.

Ha, you said it at last, thats who you meant all this time - TDG whose name should not be used in vain, for fear of being excommunicated as a blasphemer

Back to the duck (self confirmed by Button himself) the stats of last year say that when TDG and the Duck were both on track at the same time, TDG was ahead more than 80% of the time

balls, I'll have to punish myself with a pint tonight, as that was the agreed punishment for failure.

I still don't understand your argument that Vettel is normally ahead and therefore it's fine for him to fly pass Webber, it's got more holes in that swiss cheese! Just because I own a car and normally drive one doesn't mean it's right for me to break into someone elses car and drive that away and more than it is for someone without a car to do that...

[CookinFlat6]

I reckon I should be punished with a cold cider as well, or even a snakebite

We want to see racing, fast drivers beating less fast ones. Team orders can spoil that. I was just saying to guys like Seb and Lewis team orders or no team orders theywill always be faster than their slower teamate whatever the team order. And thats good to see