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[vaptin]

[It's you posting an opinion as fact that I was referring to.

If the race was cancelled vettel would have won, old or new tires. You do realize that?

Eh? The scenario being discussed here is if the red flag had happened and they couldn't change tyres.

The only reason they brought this up was because vettel got the upper hand of the red flag tire change. (he still would have won in Monaco)

Also, you said thats the only reason they brought it up, I think they brought it up mainly because the tyre change ruined the end of the race.

[racechick]

I'm surprised no one has pointed out that the other big winner in the restart was Lewis as they were able to completely rebuild his wing and he was able to continue on, otherwise it would have meant a retirement or dropping back to a non point scoring position.

He was a winner. And whilst I was glad he was able to continue, I was thinking they shouldn't be doing this. Thing is lewis' race was already ruined by qualifying and stewards, he wasnt able to compete for the win .The highlight of the race was for the podium positions and that was ruined by the tyre change. Thats why people focus on the tyre change, because it robbed us of a great finnish. The rule is wrong. Pirelli tyres and wheteher they last long enough or too long is another deabate.
As other peole have said, there are major incidents without red flags and if you pick up damage, tyres or otherwise, its tough, you have to pit. Same should happen with a red flag.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

I think we should give Pirelli their red flag rule change ...as soon as they get rid of the marbles the size of billiard balls.


Vettel claims even without the fresh rubber he could have held off Alonso. I tend to believe him, unless Alonso "pulled a Hamilton," in which case Button would have come first.

[What's Burning?]

I think we should give Pirelli their red flag rule change ...as soon as they get rid of the marbles the size of billiard balls.


Vettel claims even without the fresh rubber he could have held off Alonso. I tend to believe him, unless Alonso "pulled a Hamilton," in which case Button would have come first.

I agree Vettel would have easily held them off, and we don't like suppositions on this forum.

[acosmichippo]

But we didn't get to SEE it. F1 asked Pirelli make the sport more exciting. They do, and then run into rules that go against the very thing that allows for the exctitement - for no reason!

Anyway, the fact that Pirelli wants it is besides the point. It doesn't make sense and only ruined a potentially awesome end to a race.

[What's Burning?]

We are talking about a very RARE occurrence here.

[acosmichippo]

That doesn't change anything. The rule is wrong and should be changed.

[What's Burning?]

There are other more impacting rules I'd like to see changed in the sport before hand. Anyway, the only reason this caused a stir is because it happened with a handful of laps left to go in the race, and the particular tire "strategy" RB accidentally implemented. It would have been a non issue otherwise, or if it had happened in say lap 45. Did it rob us of an unknown finish? Who knows, but to change rules for an exception or a rare occurrence is not what they should be focusing on right now in my opinion.

[acosmichippo]

I disagree completely.

There are other more impacting rules I'd like to see changed in the sport before hand.

You seem to imply that changing this rule would prevent others from being changed too, which is not the case at all. There isn't much to "focus on". Doesn't require any research or new designs or anything. It's a matter of simply saying, "You know, there really is no reason to allow this stuff to occur during a red flag, so let's not do it anymore".

Anyway, the only reason this caused a stir is because it happened with a handful of laps left to go in the race, and the particular tire "strategy" RB accidentally implemented. It would have been a non issue otherwise, or if it had happened in say lap 45.

Again, I disagree. Maybe it wouldn't have affected Red Bull or the end of the race as directly, but it would have definitely wreaked havoc on some teams' strategies while benefitting others. So while a red flag may be a rare occurrence, my contention is that, as the rule stands now, some teams will ALWAYS gain unfair advantages over others during a red flag. The Pirellis only exacerbated the issue.

Now, one could make an argument that racing is inherently unfair and that this is simply how it is. But I would argue that if there exists a simple alteration of a rule or procedure that would help preserve the integrity of a race, it should be taken advantage of.

[What's Burning?]

I'm not saying I disagree with the change, simply that I didn't see it as such a big deal. It's racing, some teams gain an advantage some teams lose and advantage when extraneous circumstances arise. it happens all the time. We can just disagree on this one issue, but to me, to imply that it robed us of racing, well there are considerably bigger issues in the sport that are robing us of racing and this one red flag rule is a small potatoes one in my view.

[acosmichippo]

And i would rebut that by saying the issue itself (however small or large you may think it is in relation to other problems with F1) is bigger than the proposed change. It's such a very small and simple thing to tell teams, "No work on cars during a red flag."

[vaptin]

I think the rule is inconsistent. The FIA are strict on teams working on the car, they've banned third cars, testing, no work allowed between qualifying and the race (even during qualifying I think, the teams are only allowed to change small things like tyre pressure).

At any other time, having to work on your car during the race will cost the time of a long pitstop, why not something similar here?

[Jabberwocky]

I think the red flag tyre change robbed us of an amazing finish to the GP. Real edge of the seat stuff.

Maybe the rule should be change to "if the a tyre is punctured then only that tyre is changed from one of the drivers existing tyres." that way the team would have a choice of a new tyre that would cause an imbalance or an old tyre that would have less but more equal grip.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

...Anyway, the fact that Pirelli wants it is besides the point....

Hardly. In motor racing, when it comes to tyre suppliers (and especially when you've foolishly limited yourself to a single manufacturer), it's the tail that wags the dog. Before you can make any changes to the racing car formula -- engine, chassis or aero, even fuel load or composition -- you first must propose the change to the tyre manufacturer. If their engineers determine they cannot support your proposal, you must restructure it according to their recommendations. That's why for many years Leo Mehl, (now retired) head of Goodyear's motorsports division, was regarded as the most powerful man in the world of auto racing.

The FIA have given Pirelli a goal for their product. Pirelli have advised the FIA what they need in order to achieve it. Nothing at all untoward in that relationship.

I think the rule is inconsistent....

The only thing consistent about the FIA is its inconsistency.

[Bubbie]

The other issue around Red Flag rule changes will be that you will need to put in place a rule that as soon as a red flag comes out any cars not in the pits are back under parc ferme. Remember that as soon as the race starts those restrictions are lifted.

Since it seems to be the majority opinion, I think ALL changes (regardless of if they are for cut tires, etc) should be banned. But this will need to go along with marshalls reviewing each car to ensure it is safe to restart the race (which I am sure they do now anyways).