FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[1Lemon]

Ok sagi58, so you think that the FIA tips pirelli to make dangerous tyres for Silverstone that'll explode and fly rubber at 200mph into the path of another driver endangering their life and ruining Pirellis reputation.

Then they'd ask BRDC and Silverstone to build a kerb with particular tyre shreading possibilities, tarnishing their reputation, all on the request of Red Bull.....

Think of how many people would be involved in that, in the 2013 world of Twitter that would have leaked out already.

Did you really infer all that from my comment? I did NOT mention the FIA, YOU did!
I did NOT say they made dangerous tires; but, that they changed the composition of
their tires for ONE race, at Silverstone, to make it look like it was a "safety" issue!

And, I don't believe they wanted to put anyone at risk; but, they hadn't factored in
the kerbs and their effect on the tires.

As for their reputation, what better boost to a reputation than to say "we saw a
problem and we fixed it, FAST"!!

Since I don't "twitter", I won't respond to that particular comment, sorry!!

Ah I see the confusion, Pirelli even said on multiple occasions that they didn't want to change compound as it would just mean RB would win everything (They did). IF Redbull wanted to change the tyres they would have to go to the FIA and get them to get Pirelli to change, as all tyre changes must be ratified by the FIA first.

They wouldn't put safety at risk, and it's very hard to make it look like a safety issue without actually causing a safety issue, which it was. They did not change the compound for Silverstone, the construct was the same as in Monaco and Canada IIRC.

[acosmichippo]

That, and they didn't have to "make it look like" a safety issue at Silverstone. Everyone already thought it was a safety issue three races earlier in Spain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22487870

[sagi58]

Pirelli themselves admitted it was not a safety issue; but, that it looked "bad" on them when the tires delaminated:

Teams may stop Pirelli from changing tyres for Silverstone

...Agreement is required because Pirelli has not played the safety card, which trumps the usual arrangement, and requires no agreement from the teams.

One might assume that Pirelli does not want to resort to formally declaring that its current tyres are unsafe in order to force the change through. Indeed Paul Hembery has repeatedly made it clear Pirelli is more worried from a PR point of view about how a tread delamination looks on TV.

There is also the question of whether a loss of tread can be justified as a safety issue, when in fact it has allowed drivers to continue safely when as opposed to losing control due to a complete tyre failure.

Indeed even Hembery admitted in Monaco that the delaminating tyres could actually be viewed as safer given that they allow drivers to continue.

“It doesn’t deflate, that’s certainly true,” he said. “That is an aspect. Visually from a tyre maker’s point of view, it’s not great. Some of the damage we’ve seen this year more than likely would have caused a deflation, as we’ve seen in previous seasons, so that is debatable. It just looks really poor, so we have to change.”

Others in the pitlane support the view that the current tyres are better.

“The safest mode of failure with a cut tyre is what they have,” one team insider told this writer. “Or you can have a puncture that deflates rapidly and then explodes. The safest thing they can do is basically make this construction not delaminate. That’s just a bonding issue between the tread and the casing, that’s the bottom line.

“They found out that last year’s tyres have the better bond, because the bond between Kevlar and rubber is a lot easier to get right than it is between steel and rubber. For them it’s let’s go back to Kevlar, and then the tread won’t come off. [b]But you’ll get punctures[/b]…”

[What's Burning?]

Pirelli spokesmen aren't driving a car at 200 miles per hour when a tire exploded. I say we blame Massa. His tire exploded... Twice! It's his fault fir demanding the change.

[sagi58]

And, BEFORE the fiasco that is also known as Silverstone:

Pirelli changes tyres before Silverstone

F1′s tyre scandal could be set to deepen yet further, as a Spanish sports newspaper claims Pirelli – already under reprimand for ‘test-gate’ – blatantly broke the rules.

Formula One World ChampionshipMarca correspondent Marco Canseco reports that, prior to the tyre-explosive British grand prix, F1′s official supplier changed the construction of its 2013 tyre without the knowledge or the consent of the FIA or the teams. “At worst, it jeopardised the lives of the drivers,” Canseco said, referring to the spate of spectacular tyre failures at the British grand prix that have thrown the sport into crisis.

Marca said the tyres used at Silverstone had a completely new structure, with a layer of kevlar included in the internal steel-belt. Earlier, teams including Lotus, Force India and Ferrari vetoed the introduction of the purely kevlar-belted tyres, due to the rule requiring unanimity for mid-season changes. Canseco said he discovered Pirelli’s breach when Sauber and McLaren sent team personnel out to the scene of Sunday’s tyre explosions, only to discover kevlar shards among the debris.

[sagi58]

Pirelli spokesmen aren't driving a car at 200 miles per hour when a tire exploded. I say we blame Massa. His tire exploded... Twice! It's his fault fir demanding the change.

sigh...

[acosmichippo]

I don't understand your point. You say they were trying to make the tires "look" more dangerous than they really were so teams would unanimously accept a change in structure on the grounds of safety... but why go through all that trouble when they can just invoke the safety card themselves? In the article you posted above, it says they would have had no problem admitting a safety issue - they were more concerned with the appearance of delamination on TV.

[acosmichippo]

And, BEFORE the fiasco that is also known as Silverstone:

Pirelli changes tyres before Silverstone

F1′s tyre scandal could be set to deepen yet further, as a Spanish sports newspaper claims Pirelli – already under reprimand for ‘test-gate’ – blatantly broke the rules.

Formula One World ChampionshipMarca correspondent Marco Canseco reports that, prior to the tyre-explosive British grand prix, F1′s official supplier changed the construction of its 2013 tyre without the knowledge or the consent of the FIA or the teams. “At worst, it jeopardised the lives of the drivers,” Canseco said, referring to the spate of spectacular tyre failures at the British grand prix that have thrown the sport into crisis.

Marca said the tyres used at Silverstone had a completely new structure, with a layer of kevlar included in the internal steel-belt. Earlier, teams including Lotus, Force India and Ferrari vetoed the introduction of the purely kevlar-belted tyres, due to the rule requiring unanimity for mid-season changes. Canseco said he discovered Pirelli’s breach when Sauber and McLaren sent team personnel out to the scene of Sunday’s tyre explosions, only to discover kevlar shards among the debris.

So what? Granted, they should have told the teams, but does the fact that they were trying to reduce delamination really surprise you? Last year's kevlar did not delaminate, but had the potential to explode with a puncture. This year's steel deflates nicely with a puncture (which they claim is safer), but does delaminate, which the drivers and teams do not like. So in Silverstone they tried a hybrid. Poor form, sure, but in no way does this indicate a planned effort to go back to tires that work for Red Bull.

*edited typo.

[Denthúl]

Pretty sure the claim made by the Marca journalist was never even confirmed...

[sagi58]

The point is...

...giving any supplier a monopoly can create situations where they are able to influence and be influenced!!
...we don't KNOW what goes on behind closed doors!!
...Pirelli could do whatever they wanted however they wanted!!

[Denthúl]

They could, but there is no evidence to say that they did or will do.

[darwin dali]

They could, but there is no evidence to say that they did or will do.

Ah, for the necessary ka-ching anybody could venture to the dark side.

[sagi58]

They could, but there is no evidence to say that they did or will do.

Ah, for the necessary ka-ching anybody could venture to the dark side.

Thank you for saving me the trouble!!

[NHcheese]

They could, but there is no evidence to say that they did or will do.

Ah, for the necessary ka-ching anybody could venture to the dark side.

Thank you for saving me the trouble!!

Like Kimi...

[sagi58]

They could, but there is no evidence to say that they did or will do.

Ah, for the necessary ka-ching anybody could venture to the dark side.

Thank you for saving me the trouble!!

Like Kimi...

Are you insinuating that Ferrari is the "dark side"?