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[headless]

Button beat Lewis in the race, you have to admit that surely?

Have you actually read any of the post in this thread since the race?

To be fair its a helluvalot so I wouldn't expect him to, if he aint been on since

[Ineluke]

Button beat Lewis in the race, you have to admit that surely?

Of course he beat Lewis,he won, just like Lewis beat him the week before.

Have you actually read any of the post in this thread since the race?

We are talking about over taking capability's,

I kinda got lost tbh.

I recall mentioning Lewis is a more exciting driver but that doesn't make him better.

He is quicker than Button and a better driver IMO and many others. Button had no answer when Lewis over took him,the only thing he could do was take the gamble on the pit stop.

[vaptin]

Seriously this thread is one massive royal rumble.

At anyrate, it was more interseting watching Hamilton this race, but Button quite clearly did better.It was Button who made the call to get him the lead, just cos he diddn't do it the hard way through overtaking his way up the grid I don't feel its less worthy.

Ah, here it is ^.

I think we're starting to come back around on ourselves here - its the argument that Jenson is a smooth calculated driver and Lewis is a fast opportunistic one again? I suppose we could call it at 1-1 then, through a faster quali in Bharian Lewis beat Jenson who was unable to do anything being held up, however in Australia Jenson made the right call.

I'll be fascinating seeing which style wins out over the course of the season.

[vaptin]

He is quicker than Button and a better driver IMO and many others. Button had no answer when Lewis over took him,the only thing he could do was take the gamble on the pit stop.

Isn't that his answer? Buttons answer was to pit earlier than everyone else, confident in his ability to be able to work those softer tyres over the intermediates which gives him an advantage when everyone else goes to swap the two around, then manage those soft tires and keep up and away on a one stopper?

[manmonkee]

I think that first blood in the battle of Britons will have to go to Jenson; Lewis lost his head because he couldn't get past Alonso; let's face it the Spaniard was never going to make it easy and the Ferrari is a quick car; blaming the team openly over the radio is disgraceful. Jenson made the correct decision on tyres, Lewis did not and qualified poorly which affected his race and strategy; well done Jenson for being brave and calling the conditions perfectly!

Alonso and Kubica definitely showed they are great drivers - not making it easy for Lewis, doing everything they can to maintain their position. He was at least 1 second faster than both of them but couldn't manage to get past during 5 laps or so. Alonso knew there were few places where Lewis could do it, like turn 1 and 3 but he held his line and nerve, also his position. Props to both of them!

Though I can't for the life of me imagine Jenson doing what Hamilton did in the entire race. Overtaking left and right, and surging through the field after getting into a big disadvantage.

So, we're pretending Germany 2004, Hungary 2006, Brazil 2009 (And there are others) didn't happen now? Hardly seems fair

He can't do what Lewis did in Melbourne DEFINITELY. Even Brundle couldn't believe the pass on Rosberg as he did it in a corner where no one else has overtaken somebody. Can you even compare overtaking Piquet,Kobayashi and others to overtaking Massa, Rosberg and Jenson himself.

What about overtaking Alonso round the outside of a hairpin one-handed?

No way is Jenson as good as Lewis at over taking,hell he was on the receiving end of it in yesterdays race. As far as the race goes Lewis out drove Button but Button took the gamble and stayed out in front,it was easy from there.

You want reminding of Lewis's over taking capability's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH7Kk37-53Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6W9HS6P ... re=related

Nah, sorry Button isn't in the same league.

Now show us Buttons so called top overtaking moves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXaJzCmauM&NR=1

Ok Ok section of a japanese program, doubtable wether these are the top 5 overtakes ever and the fact Sato is number 4 and 5 smacks of favoritism but no1, ( strangely Button) reminds you how good he can be, remember this was the year the Renault had more Torque than god, you could pass them but they'd just blast back past you at the start of the straight.

I'm not keen on Lewis but I do think he's one of the top 3 drivers out there, in a perfect world were all the cars are the same, tires never go off and dogs love cats Lewis will probably win, but when you need to use a thing between your ears, it's called a brain, Jenson will win.
Youve at least got to give jenson points for being funnier than Lewis, when BBc's Jake Humphreys said he looked good in Silver Jenson replied " Thank you Darling", Come on, a point for that at least.

[Ineluke]

Seriously this thread is one massive royal rumble.

At anyrate, it was more interseting watching Hamilton this race, but Button quite clearly did better.It was Button who made the call to get him the lead, just cos he diddn't do it the hard way through overtaking his way up the grid I don't feel its less worthy.

Ah, here it is ^.

I think we're starting to come back around on ourselves here - its the argument that Jenson is a smooth calculated driver and Lewis is a fast opportunistic one again? I suppose we could call it at 1-1 then, through a faster quali in Bharian Lewis beat Jenson who was unable to do anything being held up, however in Australia Jenson made the right call.

I'll be fascinating seeing which style wins out over the course of the season.

He got held up because he didn't do a good job qualifying just like Lewis didn't on Saturday gone but the difference is, by the first corner Lewis had made up 4 places, Button had lost two,then he overtook Button which prompted him to take the gamble on the pit stop.

Ill agree though, it's a long season and their is plenty more drama to unfold.One thing for sure though,Ferrari and Red bull need to be worried.

[vaptin]

Seriously this thread is one massive royal rumble.

At anyrate, it was more interseting watching Hamilton this race, but Button quite clearly did better.It was Button who made the call to get him the lead, just cos he diddn't do it the hard way through overtaking his way up the grid I don't feel its less worthy.

Ah, here it is ^.

I think we're starting to come back around on ourselves here - its the argument that Jenson is a smooth calculated driver and Lewis is a fast opportunistic one again? I suppose we could call it at 1-1 then, through a faster quali in Bharian Lewis beat Jenson who was unable to do anything being held up, however in Australia Jenson made the right call.

I'll be fascinating seeing which style wins out over the course of the season.

He got held up because he didn't do a good job qualifying just like Lewis didn't on Saturday gone but the difference is, by the first corner Lewis had made up 4 places, Button had lost two,then he overtook Button which prompted him to take the gamble on the pit stop.

Ill agree though, it's a long season and their is plenty more drama to unfold.One thing for sure though,Ferrari and Red bull need to be worried.

I'm sure sure about that last bit. The capabilities of the McLaren drivers mean in changeable conditions they're a force to be feared but I think on raw pace their just not up there.

[Ineluke]

I think that first blood in the battle of Britons will have to go to Jenson; Lewis lost his head because he couldn't get past Alonso; let's face it the Spaniard was never going to make it easy and the Ferrari is a quick car; blaming the team openly over the radio is disgraceful. Jenson made the correct decision on tyres, Lewis did not and qualified poorly which affected his race and strategy; well done Jenson for being brave and calling the conditions perfectly!

Alonso and Kubica definitely showed they are great drivers - not making it easy for Lewis, doing everything they can to maintain their position. He was at least 1 second faster than both of them but couldn't manage to get past during 5 laps or so. Alonso knew there were few places where Lewis could do it, like turn 1 and 3 but he held his line and nerve, also his position. Props to both of them!

Though I can't for the life of me imagine Jenson doing what Hamilton did in the entire race. Overtaking left and right, and surging through the field after getting into a big disadvantage.

So, we're pretending Germany 2004, Hungary 2006, Brazil 2009 (And there are others) didn't happen now? Hardly seems fair

He can't do what Lewis did in Melbourne DEFINITELY. Even Brundle couldn't believe the pass on Rosberg as he did it in a corner where no one else has overtaken somebody. Can you even compare overtaking Piquet,Kobayashi and others to overtaking Massa, Rosberg and Jenson himself.

What about overtaking Alonso round the outside of a hairpin one-handed?

No way is Jenson as good as Lewis at over taking,hell he was on the receiving end of it in yesterdays race. As far as the race goes Lewis out drove Button but Button took the gamble and stayed out in front,it was easy from there.

You want reminding of Lewis's over taking capability's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH7Kk37-53Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6W9HS6P ... re=related

Nah, sorry Button isn't in the same league.

Now show us Buttons so called top overtaking moves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXaJzCmauM&NR=1

Ok Ok section of a japanese program, doubtable wether these are the top 5 overtakes ever and the fact Sato is number 4 and 5 smacks of favoritism but no1, ( strangely Button) reminds you how good he can be, remember this was the year the Renault had more Torque than god, you could pass them but they'd just blast back past you at the start of the straight.

I'm not keen on Lewis but I do think he's one of the top 3 drivers out there, in a perfect world were all the cars are the same, tires never go off and dogs love cats Lewis will probably win, but when you need to use a thing between your ears, it's called a brain, Jenson will win.
Youve at least got to give jenson points for being funnier than Lewis, when BBc's Jake Humphreys said he looked good in Silver Jenson replied " Thank you Darling", Come on, a point for that at least.

That vid doesn't even come close to the vids i showed you,show me buttons top over taking capability's.

As for button being funny,ermm what's that got to do with winning the WDC,you don't get points for being funny but if you want to talk about a driver that make me laugh then Kimi wins every time.

[Jensonb]

Now show us Buttons so called top overtaking moves?

You know what? No. I refuse. I'm sick of doing your research for you. You sit there and you throw videos of moves I've already seen happen at me to disprove a point I never made (That Hamilton couldn't overtake - a donkey with a biscuit for a brain knows that, he's about the best Aggressive-Style overtaker in the pack), just because I have to cheek to actually know what I'm talking about? No. I'm not going to do it for you. All you've proved to me is that:

A - You were asleep through much of 2009
B - You know jack and squat about Formula One (And Jack just left town)
C - You purport to be enough of an expert to judge Hamilton's overtaking prowess against Button's, but you seem to have no knowledge of F1 prior to Lewis Hamilton's arrival on the scene - or at least, you are so inexplicably besotted with him the time before ceases to matter in your head
D - You're not bloody reading what I'm saying anyway so I could probably just say something irrelevant and you'd never notice
E - Further to the previous point, Hamilton wouldn't be so quick if his tyres were pancakes
F - You're very talented at boring me to death.

If you want to keep living in a fairy world where Button (One of the best Precision-Style overtakers in the business) can't overtake anyone (I call this particular fairy world "Idiot TV Pundits Circa 2002"), feel free. But do try to keep the noise down in future, the grown ups are talking.

And yes, I'm aware I'm recycling that joke before anyone feels the need to point it out (I'm looking at you Headless )

[Denthúl]

Something that James Allen posted. I thought it was a very interesting read.

I’m very interested in the response of McLaren and its two drivers to the events in Australia. Jenson Button won the race with a performance of measured perfection and instinctive tactical brilliance, while Lewis Hamilton lit up Albert Park with his audacious passing, but ended up looking diminished in comparison with Button, less in control of his destiny, less mature.

That isn’t so surprising; Button is 30 years old and ten years into his F1 career, whereas Hamilton is 25 and only three years in. Perhaps because he won the title so early in his career and has been a front runner since day one, we forget that he still isn’t the complete package.

But today the difference between them was highlighted in several ways. Button instinctively knew that lap 6 was the right moment to gamble on a switch to dry tyres. His first sector made him and us wonder whether it was the right choice, but he was soon up to speed and from then on there was no doubt.

When everyone dived in for tyres, he moved up to second place behind Vettel and was well placed to take the lead when the Red Bull car failed again. From there he measured the gap to the opposition, trimming the car using the front wing adjuster and showing the same ability to nurse a set of tyres he showed in Monaco last year, the cornerstone of that victory.

The confidence that Button now has since winning the world title is there for all to see. It’s in the way he walks through the paddock, conducts interviews, greets people. He’s achieved his goal, he is loving life as an F1 driver and whatever happens from now on is a bonus. Fear of failure is no longer part of his game and that is a mighty powerful weapon.

His mechanics love him already. He comes in and thanks them for their work at the end of every day and they appreciate his honesty on the days when he doesn’t get it right.

If Button is about swagger, mixed with savvy and subtlety, Hamilton is all about the warrior spirit, but the fear of failure is still there. He was aggressive from the outset and pulled off some stunning moves. He was never going to beat Button because he didn’t take the early tyre gamble but a podium was there for the taking.

But unlike Button he wasn’t leading from the cockpit, he was still dependent on his engineers to tell him what to do on tyres and they felt that he would benefit from a second set of dry tyres, expecting the cars around him like the Ferraris and Kubica to do likewise. But as Fernando Alonso said, the simulations in no way recommended sacrificing track position for a second or two per lap of speed advantage. Track position is king.

McLaren’s decision was partly informed by the belief that Hamilton would struggle to make it to the finish on a single set of tyres, unlike Button.

Realising the decision had been wrong he criticised the team in a radio transmission which was heard by the world, which showed a lack of composure.

“All I know is the guys do, always, a fantastic job, but the strategy was not right,” he said after the race. “Everyone else in front of me did one stop and for some reason I did two.”

It’s the “for some reason” part of that sentence which rings hollow in comparison with Button’s decisiveness.

It reminded me of China 2007, where Hamilton lost the world championship by staying out too long on a set of tyres that everyone could see were destroyed. He slid off into the gravel trap on his belated way into the pits.

On that occasion he was led by the team, which was trying to win the title that day, rather than take a safe podium that was there for the taking and which would leave him with a simple tap-in at the final race. That was McLaren hubris at its most extreme.

Yesterday Hamilton showed he is still dependent on them for decisions, but unfortunately for him, Button showed what leadership from the cockpit is all about and the contrast is painful for Hamilton. He will be stinging.

It comes at a time when he is coming out of the protective cuccoon of his father Anthony, facing the world as his own man. The lesson of Melbourne is that as a driver he clearly has some life skills to learn.

He has exceptional skill behind the wheel, of the kind which could make him one of the greats, but until he can add that extra dimension of leadership and racing intelligence from the cockpit he will not be the complete package.

[antoniob]

What in the name of E Tis going on here ??

[vaptin]

What in the name of E Tis going on here ??

It's the usual, anyway it's only a week this time to the next grand prix so I'm going to leave this debate until then

[antoniob]

What in the name of E Tis going on here ??

It's the usual, anyway it's only a week this time to the next grand prix so I'm going to leave this debate until then

er ? . yah i notice we have ones that matter and one that dont. you ofcause is important so you need to stick around.

[vaptin]

What in the name of E Tis going on here ??

It's the usual, anyway it's only a week this time to the next grand prix so I'm going to leave this debate until then

er ? . yah i notice we have ones that matter and one that dont. you ofcause is important so you need to stick around.

I'll be in India next week anyway, So I think I'll be missing the next two grand prixs. Thought I'd tell you as I don't want to be accused of hiding if Ferrari flop

[antoniob]

What in the name of E Tis going on here ??

It's the usual, anyway it's only a week this time to the next grand prix so I'm going to leave this debate until then

er ? . yah i notice we have ones that matter and one that dont. you ofcause is important so you need to stick around.

I'll be in India next week anyway, So I think I'll be missing the next two grand prixs. Thought I'd tell you as I don't want to be accused of hiding if Ferrari flop

even if you were I'd be covering for you..