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[Ichabod]

There was some nice racing by him and some good passes in the German GP.

The only overtake Sebastian made was when Fernando ran wide on lap 2
and Fernando got him back a couple of laps later into turn 1

unless you mean passing lapped back-markers ?

he did nothing to silence his critics just gave them a bit more ammo
(do you remember Germany when he couldn't even get passed Massa)

[andrew]

There were more overtakes than some. He made one mistake in an otherwise faultless drive. I'd call that pretty good, of course the "haters" will twist this any which way.

[Peng]

There were more overtakes than some. He made one mistake in an otherwise faultless drive. I'd call that pretty good, of course the "haters" will twist this any which way.

Everyone makes mistakes and it didn't even really cost him that badly as he was off the pace of the top 3 all throughout the race.

Problem with people giving Vettel excuses atm is that it just sounds like lame excuses as usual, first time in a long time he hasn't been leading from lap 1 and its his worst drive for a long time you don't see a coincidence here?

He's an amazing driver but as a large amount of F1 fans keep saying he just isn't that good when in the middle battling for position, he maybe the best driver on the grid currently at qualifying and leading races but he quite clearly hasn't found the sweet spot when he is behind.

Its probably not surprising considering a large majority of his F1 career so far has been leading from the front so i think just give him time and i am sure he will prove me and everyone else wrong, but until than please stop making silly excuses it becomes extremely tiresome reading reasons why his subpar drives were actually skillful and exceptional when quite frankly he has had average drives and still managed to score decent points.

[What's Burning?]

Trying for a fresh take on it all, let's say that Vettel is arguably the best qualifier in the sport, full stop. (I know some will argue this) but just for the sake of this post let's give him that.

So being the best qualifier, he may be bringing 8 tenths of a second in Q3 to an already superior chassis when everything is dialed in right. That would account for the times we've seen Webber half a second off Vettel's Q times. So now, let's say the other top drivers in the sport bring with them 5 tenths, 6 tenths of a second to a car, but all the time. They get the most out of that car in Q, and in race pace. Where Vettel may bring less of an advantage to the car in race pace... let's say 3 tenths.

Granted there are factors like bad starts and poor tire strategies cars running better in clean air, and just plain old mistakes, so I'm keeping this simply as what a driver brings to a properly dialed in car.

Given this, IMO nothing that we've observed this year can poke holes in this hypothesis I've just proposed.

[Timekeeper]

There were more overtakes than some. He made one mistake in an otherwise faultless drive. I'd call that pretty good, of course the "haters" will twist this any which way.

I certainly don't hate Vettel. I'm just stating the obvious truth. He showed no signs of overtaking ability in Germany, simply because he did not make any that were not from an unforced area or a pit stop. It's as black and white as that. Until he proves that when he's stuck in the midfield showing he can work his way through the pack - then he will stop copping such criticism. To be fair he has not been in that position much in the RB car. This weekend was one instance where he wasn't at the front, pulling away each lap, and ultimately he didn't answer his critics. My 2 c.

[oaba09]

Vettel's weakness is overtaking...
Don't get me wrong, he's a great driver(probably in the same tier as alonso and hamilton) but this doesn't mean that he's a perfect driver...

Everybody has weaknesses and strengths...

Vettel is a strong qualifier and he's almost unstoppable when he's in the front but he struggles when there's traffic in front of him...
Hamilton is a great overtaker but he tends to be too aggressive and lose his cool at times...
Alonso is the best overall driver in F1 but he can't seem to coexist when he has a good team mate(mclaren days)

I just don't get why vettel fans can't accept that he has weaknesses...

Nobody is perfect....

[nish2280]

I think people need to take into account the possibility that the RB7 does not perform well in dirty air. It doesnt have the straight line speed of the other cars as seen in the speed traps and in Germany, while being just over 1 second behind Massa he set the fastest lap of the race but as soon as he came within 1 second his laptime started to drop off.

[bud]

I think people need to take into account the possibility that the RB7 does not perform well in dirty air. It doesnt have the straight line speed of the other cars as seen in the speed traps and in Germany, while being just over 1 second behind Massa he set the fastest lap of the race but as soon as he came within 1 second his laptime started to drop off.

while i believe this has a part to play in terms of the RB7s overtaking abilities Webber did manage to overtake Hamilton, even if Lewis got him back straight away.

[nish2280]

I think people need to take into account the possibility that the RB7 does not perform well in dirty air. It doesnt have the straight line speed of the other cars as seen in the speed traps and in Germany, while being just over 1 second behind Massa he set the fastest lap of the race but as soon as he came within 1 second his laptime started to drop off.

while i believe this has a part to play in terms of the RB7s overtaking abilities Webber did manage to overtake Hamilton, even if Lewis got him back straight away.

Didnt Lewis outbreak himself into that corner though? I think webber overtook as soon as they got out of the corner so im pretty sure Lewis made a small mistake because its not like there can be that much of a difference purely on accelerating out of the corner and Mark wasnt close enough before the corner.

[bud]

Yeah thats true, Lewis did go a bit wide from braking late.

[Peng]

I think people need to take into account the possibility that the RB7 does not perform well in dirty air. It doesnt have the straight line speed of the other cars as seen in the speed traps and in Germany, while being just over 1 second behind Massa he set the fastest lap of the race but as soon as he came within 1 second his laptime started to drop off.

I agree i do think they have set the car up more to be in clean air so lose more in dirty air than their rivals but i don't think it is affecting the car that much.

The exact same thing was said last year after Vettels crashes and yet Webber made quite a few great overtakes last year from what i remember, pretty sure he has had a few this year aswell but with the amount of bad races he has had so far this season id have to go rewatch the races to remember where and who those overtakes were on.

Simple fact is Vettel isn't perfect and those of us commenting about this are pointing out 1 small part of what makes up a racing driver, i can admit Hamilton is immature, arrogant and reckless at times why cant some Vettel fans admit he isn't 100% perfect?

And yes i know some Hamilton fans cant admit he isn't 100% perfect either but several of the people this post is aimed at have bashed Hamilton fans for the exact same thing they do every weekend.

[Hammer278]

Might be a noob question, but how do you 'set a car up only for clean air'? And how is it that Redbull is the most affected by dirty air compared to others? Aren't all cars made of the same materials and all shaped reasonably similarly? The McLarens and Ferraris aren't 'ghost' cars are they, to not be affected much by a car in front??

All cars experience dirty air, this is the lamest excuse ever I've seen. I remember Vettel overtaking left and right at Silverstone last year when he was in midpack, that was one instance when he had to fight his way through and did a good job. But it is an anamoly out of the 'fight from midpack' races from him. Why can't we just accept that it's not one of his strengths?

That's Vettel.

[f1ea]

Hey, what is the deal with all this Vettel sucks thing ??

He had an 'average' weekend, finished P4 and kept his solid lead in the championship (or actually increase it?). he had a aspin in a tough corner, weird conditions, brake problems, weak weekend and with less-than-perfect set up.... he didnt even lose position from that spin.

Its not like he crashed himself pointlessly out of the race.

Bottom line is: Vettel is doing and has done what it takes for him to win the championship. Who here is qualified enough to label his drives "worthy of a champion" or not?

[Denthúl]

Might be a noob question, but how do you 'set a car up only for clean air'? And how is it that Redbull is the most affected by dirty air compared to others? Aren't all cars made of the same materials and all shaped reasonably similarly? The McLarens and Ferraris aren't 'ghost' cars are they, to not be affected much by a car in front??

All cars experience dirty air, this is the lamest excuse ever I've seen. I remember Vettel overtaking left and right at Silverstone last year when he was in midpack, that was one instance when he had to fight his way through and did a good job. But it is an anamoly out of the 'fight from midpack' races from him. Why can't we just accept that it's not one of his strengths?

That's Vettel.

To be fair, it would not surprise me that one of Newey's cars might be more susceptible to the effects of 'dirty air' than others, because he tends to design them to operate within a very narrow window. On the other hand, Webber managed plenty of successful overtakes earlier in the season, so...

[f1ea]

To be fair, it would not surprise me that one of Newey's cars might be more susceptible to the effects of 'dirty air' than others, because he tends to design them to operate within a very narrow window. On the other hand, Webber managed plenty of successful overtakes earlier in the season, so...

its not simply a matter of car set -up. Its more a matter of car design, and how effective (or rather how much aerodynamic efficiency the car loses) a car handles dirty air.

To add a little perspective: this was one of Webber's strongest weekend of the season. He actualy lost 2 positions compared to grid, and only managed 1 position over Vettel. On the other hand, Vettel only lost a position, had brake problems, finished one position closer to his teammate than he started in, and kept his championship lead.......