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[f1ea]

I and i am sure a lot of other people would take offence to that comment, thats a loud of crap! we all know why Ferrari did it, people that are against it are so because:
A. its still too early in the season to back one driver
B. There is a rule against doing it, especially so blatantly. You would think a team like Ferrari the team order kings would have been smarter about it!

They shouldnt take offense. I'm not saying people are dumb. Just that they are being emotional. Like Massa.
Him being emotional is what made the whole situation worse like you said in B.

In A... it looks like its too early. But everyone knows its do or die. Alonso has 1 race left to mount a fight for the championship. If he does poorly in Hungary, kiss the WDC good bye. Massa is not in the form to win the championship for Ferrari. He knows it, Ferrari knows it and everybody in the paddock knows it. if he was driving in the form of 2008, this call would have never taken place. Massa knows that also, so he'll be able to digest it once he gets the emotions out.

[bud]

sorry saying people are being emotional just because they disagree with your view is BS. They will take offence.

[f1ea]

sorry saying people are being emotional just because they disagree with your view is BS. They will take offence.

I hope they dont take offence.

But put it this way:
if today (the day of hockenheim) you had only 1 car for a team, the F10 as it is today. Based on what you have seen in this season. Would you give it to Alonso or Massa to win the championship? maybe neither will win it, but who would you give it to?

[bud]

Kimi won a championship 18 points behind with 3 races to go, which is similar to being 45 points behind in this seasons points system.

Its tooooo early to make these decisions now! Im sure if it were Massa who was ahead in the points and Ferrari favoured him you and the Fernando brigade would not agree with Ferrari and have a fit. Infact I cannot even imagine Fernando being so cooperative if the roles were reversed!

[f1ea]

Kimi won a championship 18 points behind with 3 races to go, which is similar to being 45 points behind in this seasons points system.

Its tooooo early to make these decisions now! Im sure if it were Massa who was ahead in the points and Ferrari favoured him you and the Fernando brigade would not agree with Ferrari and have a fit. Infact I cannot even imagine Fernando being so cooperative if the roles were reversed!

Alonso has to win 50% of the coming races, with Lewis getting an average of 8pts per race... Lewis still wins it.
It is not too early. The races for Ferrari were Canada, Valencia, Silverstone and Hockenheim. Got a lifeline in Hockenheim, if they screw up 1 more race, its over.

[Flux]

ferrari have been found guilty theres no argument about that anymore, when the WMSC meets they wont be "re convicting" ferrari they will just be deciding on wether the punishment fits the crime or if there are further sanctions to come.

you guys need to let go of each others necks the argument that mclaren did it so ferrari can do it is fruitless

[f1ea]

ferrari have been found guilty theres no argument about that anymore, when the WMSC meets they wont be "re convicting" ferrari they will just be deciding on wether the punishment fits the crime or if there are further sanctions to come.

you guys need to let go of each others necks the argument that mclaren did it so ferrari can do it is fruitless

hehe i haven't mentioned mclaren vs ferrari in the team order shamble though. I think EVERY team does it.

But yeah, i hope no one comes now and babble that Ferrari deserves "effective punishment". They broke the rule, they got a fine. There's your punishment... we don't like it that much now, do we?

[What's Burning?]

Is it Hungaroring yet so we can talk about something else.

[bud]

they might yet lose this win, monetary fine seems insufficient to a team like Ferrari.

[What's Burning?]

they might yet lose this win, monetary fine seems insufficient to a team like Ferrari.

the symbolism is worse than the 100k, I would think the expected "punishment" if any wold be to take away Ferrari's WCC points for that race but it doesn't really matter since those hopes were already lost.

I think the funniest thing in all this was Vettel asking if he could leave during the post race interviews and then saying he was just glad it was someone other than Red Bull taking heat.

[AKR]

Ferrari are not remotely guilty. This is a waste of time. And regardless of the driver order they got a deserved one two. But as I said before if Ferrari are guilty then so are Citroën and Loeb in the WRC. I noticed how my previous statement has been evaded.Does this mean no one can rebute this. Of course not which means Ferrari are also not guilty.

In the 2009 WRC Championship Loeb ended up winning the drivers title by 2 points over Ford rival Hirvonen. There was a rally (I cannot remember the exact one although I did watch every single rally in 2009) where Loeb crashed and was out of the points and Hirvonen was leading. Loeb's Citroen was repaired but he was out of the points. All Citroen drivers were then ordered to slow down to allow Citroen's Loeb the highest possible placing. Hirvonen one this rally but Loeb scored valueable points thanks to team orders which is a very normal everyday occurance in the WRC just so you know. These points proved crucial in the end as Loeb won the title in the last rally of the season by a mere 2 points. This team order was allowed in WRC like in all other motor sports and no one including Ford and Hirvonen protested. It is normal to do this. From what I have been reading on this forum mostly, team orders are cheating and shouldn't be used. Thus as a Ford fan in the WRC should I now conclude that Loeb as well is a cheat and shouldn't be WRC champion of 2009 and that in fact it should be Ford's Mirko Hirvonen? Ummm I don't reallyh think so. All have a good day and happy futile arguing among yourselves

[Gaz]

Ferrari are not remotely guilty. This is a waste of time. And regardless of the driver order they got a deserved one two. But as I said before if Ferrari are guilty then so are Citroën and Loeb in the WRC. I noticed how my previous statement has been evaded.Does this mean no one can rebute this. Of course not which means Ferrari are also not guilty.

In the 2009 WRC Championship Loeb ended up winning the drivers title by 2 points over Ford rival Hirvonen. There was a rally (I cannot remember the exact one although I did watch every single rally in 2009) where Loeb crashed and was out of the points and Hirvonen was leading. Loeb's Citroen was repaired but he was out of the points. All Citroen drivers were then ordered to slow down to allow Citroen's Loeb the highest possible placing. Hirvonen one this rally but Loeb scored valueable points thanks to team orders which is a very normal everyday occurance in the WRC just so you know. These points proved crucial in the end as Loeb won the title in the last rally of the season by a mere 2 points. This team order was allowed in WRC like in all other motor sports and no one including Ford and Hirvonen protested. It is normal to do this. From what I have been reading on this forum mostly, team orders are cheating and shouldn't be used. Thus as a Ford fan in the WRC should I now conclude that Loeb as well is a cheat and shouldn't be WRC champion of 2009 and that in fact it should be Ford's Mirko Hirvonen? Ummm I don't reallyh think so. All have a good day and happy futile arguing among yourselves

You can not compare F1 and WRC

Team orders are allowed in WRC and Banned F1

Its like saying Ferrari can use a ford focus for hungary because its allowed in the WRC.

Ferrari cheated not just a little bit Smeldy might of well said "massa, domanicali says if you don't move over, your sacked"

[What's Burning?]

Ferrari are not remotely guilty. This is a waste of time. And regardless of the driver order they got a deserved one two. But as I said before if Ferrari are guilty then so are Citroën and Loeb in the WRC. I noticed how my previous statement has been evaded.Does this mean no one can rebute this. Of course not which means Ferrari are also not guilty.

In the 2009 WRC Championship Loeb ended up winning the drivers title by 2 points over Ford rival Hirvonen. There was a rally (I cannot remember the exact one although I did watch every single rally in 2009) where Loeb crashed and was out of the points and Hirvonen was leading. Loeb's Citroen was repaired but he was out of the points. All Citroen drivers were then ordered to slow down to allow Citroen's Loeb the highest possible placing. Hirvonen one this rally but Loeb scored valueable points thanks to team orders which is a very normal everyday occurance in the WRC just so you know. These points proved crucial in the end as Loeb won the title in the last rally of the season by a mere 2 points. This team order was allowed in WRC like in all other motor sports and no one including Ford and Hirvonen protested. It is normal to do this. From what I have been reading on this forum mostly, team orders are cheating and shouldn't be used. Thus as a Ford fan in the WRC should I now conclude that Loeb as well is a cheat and shouldn't be WRC champion of 2009 and that in fact it should be Ford's Mirko Hirvonen? Ummm I don't reallyh think so. All have a good day and happy futile arguing among yourselves

At this point with some exceptions, (like don't order someone to crash) it looks like the whole team order rule will be wiped out next year.

[What's Burning?]

Ferrari are not remotely guilty. This is a waste of time. And regardless of the driver order they got a deserved one two. But as I said before if Ferrari are guilty then so are Citroën and Loeb in the WRC. I noticed how my previous statement has been evaded.Does this mean no one can rebute this. Of course not which means Ferrari are also not guilty.

In the 2009 WRC Championship Loeb ended up winning the drivers title by 2 points over Ford rival Hirvonen. There was a rally (I cannot remember the exact one although I did watch every single rally in 2009) where Loeb crashed and was out of the points and Hirvonen was leading. Loeb's Citroen was repaired but he was out of the points. All Citroen drivers were then ordered to slow down to allow Citroen's Loeb the highest possible placing. Hirvonen one this rally but Loeb scored valueable points thanks to team orders which is a very normal everyday occurance in the WRC just so you know. These points proved crucial in the end as Loeb won the title in the last rally of the season by a mere 2 points. This team order was allowed in WRC like in all other motor sports and no one including Ford and Hirvonen protested. It is normal to do this. From what I have been reading on this forum mostly, team orders are cheating and shouldn't be used. Thus as a Ford fan in the WRC should I now conclude that Loeb as well is a cheat and shouldn't be WRC champion of 2009 and that in fact it should be Ford's Mirko Hirvonen? Ummm I don't reallyh think so. All have a good day and happy futile arguing among yourselves

You can not compare F1 and WRC

Team orders are allowed in WRC and Banned F1

Its like saying Ferrari can use a ford focus for hungary because its allowed in the WRC.

Ferrari cheated not just a little bit Smeldy might of well said "massa, domanicali says if you don't move over, your sacked"

Coming to think of it, there may have been a little bit of "civil disobedience" there in both Smedly and Massa both making it so obvious.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

...You can not compare F1 and WRC....

Too late, he already did.