FORUMula1.com

[Jabberwocky]

Let Renault rub restricted V8's as they did with Toro Rosso and the V10's

Sent using NCC-1701

[operaman]

But seriously. I hope the FIA don't fix it again for red bull.

My read is the odds are heavily in favor of just that happening - and as I've said previously, the justification will be last years mid-season rule change to accommodate safety issues for some cars/teams.

Doesn't even have to be "safety" issues, or mid-season. Remember the "reliability" upgrades granted to Renault and others in the past. The FIA can be creative in justifying getting what they want.

[sagi58]

...as I've said previously, the justification will be last years mid-season rule change to accommodate safety issues for some cars/teams.

I'm sorry but could you explain the angle in which Renault can sell this as a safety issue?...

They could pull a "Pirelli" and have the engines blow up mid-race, thus putting drivers at "risk".
Nothing "serious", just serious-looking... lots of smoke... a little fire (in the vicinity of a fire marshall)...
engine oil leaking all over the track...

[spankyham]

I guess the fix Spanky keeps insisting is going to happen is the FiA sends a couple of Mercedes engineers over to Renault? What fix? What can they possibly do other than to slide the entire season back two months to give Renault more time?

I'd love to hear what you think this "fix" is.

My opinion on the fix will be a guess, but the guy(s) who will be putting forward the "fixes" will for sure be targeting them at what will benefit the team. So probably those with the best guesses will be Adrian Newey and Christian Horner. If I have to guess I'd say they will look for an advantage that will get them back in the game as soon as Renault sort their engine. Perhaps increase in car weights, less fuel and attacking the noses of other cars that have clearly come up with a better solution to RBR. The other thing would be to allow the Renault teams more testing and Renault free testing of their engines in a mule car that would be suspiciously like a RB10. Perhaps also a "free" engine at the first 3 races. But as I said, AN is a lot smarter than me - I'm sure he will come up with plenty

[CookinFlat6]

I guess the fix Spanky keeps insisting is going to happen is the FiA sends a couple of Mercedes engineers over to Renault? What fix? What can they possibly do other than to slide the entire season back two months to give Renault more time?

I'd love to hear what you think this "fix" is.

If spanks is talking about a fix for Red Bull I'd be interested in knowing what. If a fix for Renault then homologation and then freeze on engines is meant to have each at the same power level. So like before Renault could receive an allowance bring the engines up in power even after the fix. However the damage will have been done, this season will be a write off for thier customers
However the engines usability cooling fuel economy etc will still have to become good enough.
This is different from saying the rules will be changed or the v8 allowed or ERS abolished to help Renault. Like changing the tyres last year helped RBB
What rules can be changed to help a Renault build an engine as good as the other 2? Delay season start? Make each engine use only 75%? Change the race to 5 laps only? Speed limit?

It's just not comparable to dodgy tyres everyone had

[spankyham]

Data from Pirelli:
Testing numbers:

· Total number of sets brought to Jerez: 250 sets
which equals 1,000 tyres
- of which supersoft tyres: 2 sets
- of which soft tyres: 9 sets
- of which medium tyres: 52 sets
- of which hard tyres: 52 sets
- of which ‘winter’ tyres: 69 sets
- of which intermediate tyres: 36 sets
- of which wet tyres: 30 sets

· Total amount of sets used: 99
- of which supersoft tyres: 1 sets
- of which soft tyres: 2 sets
- of which medium tyres: 23 sets
- of which hard tyres: 11 sets
- of which ‘winter’ tyres: 32 sets
- of which intermediate tyres: 20 sets
- of which wet tyres: 10 sets

· Longest run:
10 laps on the supersoft compound
9 laps of the soft compound
17 laps on the medium compound
24 laps on the hard compound
23 laps on the ‘winter’ compound
26 laps on the intermediate compound
13 laps on the wet compound

· Highest / lowest ambient temp over four days: 17 °C / 5 °C
· Highest / lowest track temp over four days: 23 °C / 6 °C

Testing Times:

Day 1
1. Raikkonen (Ferrari) 1’27’’104s on Winter compound, New
2. Hamilton (Mercedes) 1’27’’820s on Winter compound, Used
3. Bottas (Williams) 1’30’’082s on Winter compound, Used

Day 2
1. Button (McLaren) 1’24.165s on Medium, New
2. Raikkonen (Ferrari) 1’24’’812s on Medium, Used
3. Bottas (Williams) 1’25’’344s on Winter compound, New

Day 3
1. Magnussen (McLaren) 1’23’’276s on Medium, New
2. Massa (Williams) 1’23’’700s on Hard, Used
3. Hamilton (Mercedes) 1’23’’952s on Medium, New

Day 4
1. Massa (Williams) 1’28’’229s, on Hard, New
2. Alonso (Ferrari) 1’29’’145s, on Medium, Used
3. Juncadella (Force India) 1’29’’457s, on Soft, New

[1Lemon]

I'm still shocked that people think suddenly the Pirelli tyres were exploding because Pirelli made them to so red bull could win again. No amount of money being given to Pirelli would make up the PR loss from that.

I thought that the engines have a development freeze once the first race has started. Obviously they can work on next year's engine though.

[CookinFlat6]

"The goal," said Mercedes driver Rosberg, "was to do a lot of miles, and we managed to achieve that quite well. It's a decent start.
"It's a surprise to get so many miles, but we have no idea where we are in terms of pace - nothing is all out, not even the driver."

Meaning his full race sim was a 'finish the race within all 2014 regulatory parameters, i.e fuel limit, fuel flow limit, tyre change'

Mercedes are the only team to have done this, therefore the times they set and the power modes they used are irrelevant. Now they will start to work on outright performance, Completing a race sim at the limit

It means other Merc customers were setting their fast lap times on different settings with different objectives. Maybe some showboating from those who needed an uplift after a dismal 2013, maybe some looking for sponsors, maybe some starting with testing outright pace. None have done a race sim therefore its logical that they have tested other areas.

Also Merc would be mad to show the full potential of their car vs the customers at this early stage. If we look at Ferrari, there is a clear differential between the works and customers. I doubt the other works team wont have a similar advantage

[sagi58]

... No amount of money being given to Pirelli would make up the PR loss from that...

It's called a "calculated risk"!! Don't forget Pirelli ""solved"" the problem before anyone got hurt!!
Pirelli went up against the big bad teams who didn't want change the tires and they won!!
Suddenly, Pirelli is the ""hero""!! The fact that RBR benefitted from this was ""incidental""!!

[CookinFlat6]

Suddenly, Pirelli is the ""hero""!! The fact that RBR benefitted from this was ""incidental""!!

I highly doubt any heroism attached to Pirelli last year compensated a tenth of the vilification and bad press they got. Its hard to accept the 'Pirelli and RBR planned this' theory, mainly because had the teams agreed in the first place Pirelli would have changed to the interim tyre that benefitted Merc and Ferrari. Pirelli floundered and RBR took advantage and Ferrari were too busy vilifying Mercs test to realise they were getting screwed as well

[What's Burning?]

We all know that Ferrari would have won their 4th straight title if it wasn't for the FiA helping Red Bull so much. Oh the irony.

[NHcheese]

haha. McLaren would have one one as well.

[spankyham]

We all know that Ferrari would have won their 4th straight title if it wasn't for the FiA helping Red Bull so much. Oh the irony.

Finally, a decent rewrite on the past four years

haha. McLaren would have one one as well.

I don't mind McLaren getting one as long as Ferrari get the rest

[CookinFlat6]

You mean McLaren could have kept the one they did win as well

[sagi58]

...Ferrari were too busy vilifying Mercs test to realise they were getting screwed as well

You mean the """illegal""" testing that was done, with BOTH Mercedes drivers and their PRESENT car?
You might do well to remember that it was NOT """just""" Ferrari that didn't approve!!
NOR was it """only""" Ferrari that got screwed with the Pirelli tire change!!

But, then again, singling out Ferrari seems to be your mission in life!!
Starting to believe you're a closet Tifosi and are just fighting it!!