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[AlesiRed27]

...has to remain a hard sport really. In the Tour De France, there was at a certain moment some issue because Contador "should have waited" for his direct rival, who broke his chain. Contador didn't slow down and took the yellow, and went on to win the Tour.

Is this what you want F1 to become? Fully regulated so there absolutely no racing left?

It's a teamsport, and teams should be allowed to decide how to play out these things, as long as they remain in the spirit of the sport. There was no intentional blocking, intentional crashing.

Just for a moment think about how this race could have ended differently. We have an Alonso stuck up behind Massa, which is only remotely in the possibility of winning the championship. More importantly, we have at the moment of the incident a Vettel who is approaching the 2. What if Vettel would have passed Alonso, or worse, take him out/make him lose more positions in a overtaking attempt? After the race a lot of people would say Ferrari threw away their points of the day. Moving Massa was as much about 5 extra points for Alonso, as it was creating a buffer for the oncoming Red Bull.

Last but not least, Massa was heavily struggling on the hard tires, to the point of possibly losing it under braking & taking himself and possibly his team mate out. If you are race director & see your driver struggling to keep a pace he couldn't at that moment, with your second driver almost biting his teeth into the back of former said car, what would *you* do? "Let them fight it out?" Let them crash out? Would love to see you explain that to your employer (especially if he's called Montezemolo)

I'm not saying this wasn't "against the rules" - clearly it is - but I'm thinking, do these rules need to be there in the first place?

[newtransistorhero]

Maybe the whole team orders thing isn't policeable, Brundle is probably right on that, but while it's against the rules, you have to apply penalties

All the ex drivers seemed to miss that point on sunday (on the BBC in any case)

I've never liked alonso, didn't even like him when he drove for Mclaren, and it's incidents like this which make him hard to like. I think if he'd kept pushing Massa, FM would have made a mistake, he clearly didn't like the hard tyres (which he said after the race) and nearly slid off three times on his first two laps on them. Alsono would probably have got past

but having his team mates move out of the way for him makes him less of a champion in my eyes

[AKR]

SPEED Posted the following

Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo has made it clear that he has no problem with what the team did in Hockenheim, and says that Felipe Massa must understand that the interests of the team come first.

Massa allegedly handed over the lead to teammate Fernando Alonso, who went on to win.

“I am very happy for all our fans who finally, yesterday, saw two Ferraris lead from start to finish as they dominated the race,” said di Montezemolo on Ferrari's website. “The result is down to the efforts of all our people, who never give up. Now we have to continue working like this, to improve the car so that it is competitive at all the circuits we will encounter.

“Alonso and Massa also did very well, giving their all throughout the weekend. The polemics are of no interest to me. I simply reaffirm what I have always maintained, which is that our drivers are very well aware, and it is something they have to stick to, that if one races for Ferrari, then the interests of the team come before those of the individual.

“In any case, these things have happened since the days of Nuvolari, and I experienced it myself when I was Sporting Director, in the days of Niki Lauda and not just then. ... Therefore, enough of this hypocrisy, even if I can well believe that some people might well have liked to see our two drivers eliminate one another. But that is definitely not the case for me or indeed for our fans.”

Is Luca's last paragraph here trying to justify the whole situation implying that their drivers can't execute a safe pass? Treat your fans with some dignity, you did was was right for Ferrari, not Ferrari's fans. People's opinion of Ferrari will not change they understand in the end it's a business that's obligated to the sponsors first and the fans second.

Famour quote from Enzo Ferrari himself.

"When Ferrari wins, our cars win. When Ferrari loses, our drivers lose."

This clearly indicates the Enzo himself always put his cars and team before any driver. Montezemolo is only doing what Enzo himself would of done. Surely this cannot be wrong as it is in the legacy of Enzo Ferrari himself. Now who on the forum dares to speak badly of Enzo Ferrari, the great man and founder of Scuderia Ferrari and all their wonderful road cars?

[bud]

its wrong when there is a rule against swapping the lead in a grand prix.

just on that Enzo quote, thats quite funny actually thats saying the car is the reason they won, without the drivers doing.. yet when they lose its the other way around, its the drivers doing not the cars!

[What's Burning?]

SPEED Posted the following

Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo has made it clear that he has no problem with what the team did in Hockenheim, and says that Felipe Massa must understand that the interests of the team come first.

Massa allegedly handed over the lead to teammate Fernando Alonso, who went on to win.

“I am very happy for all our fans who finally, yesterday, saw two Ferraris lead from start to finish as they dominated the race,” said di Montezemolo on Ferrari's website. “The result is down to the efforts of all our people, who never give up. Now we have to continue working like this, to improve the car so that it is competitive at all the circuits we will encounter.

“Alonso and Massa also did very well, giving their all throughout the weekend. The polemics are of no interest to me. I simply reaffirm what I have always maintained, which is that our drivers are very well aware, and it is something they have to stick to, that if one races for Ferrari, then the interests of the team come before those of the individual.

“In any case, these things have happened since the days of Nuvolari, and I experienced it myself when I was Sporting Director, in the days of Niki Lauda and not just then. ... Therefore, enough of this hypocrisy, even if I can well believe that some people might well have liked to see our two drivers eliminate one another. But that is definitely not the case for me or indeed for our fans.”

Is Luca's last paragraph here trying to justify the whole situation implying that their drivers can't execute a safe pass? Treat your fans with some dignity, you did was was right for Ferrari, not Ferrari's fans. People's opinion of Ferrari will not change they understand in the end it's a business that's obligated to the sponsors first and the fans second.

Famour quote from Enzo Ferrari himself.

"When Ferrari wins, our cars win. When Ferrari loses, our drivers lose."

This clearly indicates the Enzo himself always put his cars and team before any driver. Montezemolo is only doing what Enzo himself would of done. Surely this cannot be wrong as it is in the legacy of Enzo Ferrari himself. Now who on the forum dares to speak badly of Enzo Ferrari, the great man and founder of Scuderia Ferrari and all their wonderful road cars?

Enzo Ferrari spoke English?

You're right that Ferrari did, what Ferrari (Enzo) would have done.

Lions eat baby zebras and that's the way of the world. You know both sides of the story and I'm glad that both sides exist but my point of being robbed of a great battle is just as valid as Ferrari doing what 3/4 of the teams on the grid would have done given the same situation.

EDIT: I would feel the same way if McLaren or Red Bull or Renault, or William had done it to their fans.

[What's Burning?]

its wrong when there is a rule against swapping the lead in a grand prix.

just on that Enzo quote, thats quite funny actually thats saying the car is the reason they won, without the drivers doing.. yet when they lose its the other way around, its the drivers doing not the cars!

and Ferrari will pay whatever price/fines they're told to pay I'm sure. if nothing else, we've got our F1 topic of the year right here.

[vaptin]

SPEED Posted the following

Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo has made it clear that he has no problem with what the team did in Hockenheim, and says that Felipe Massa must understand that the interests of the team come first.

Massa allegedly handed over the lead to teammate Fernando Alonso, who went on to win.

“I am very happy for all our fans who finally, yesterday, saw two Ferraris lead from start to finish as they dominated the race,” said di Montezemolo on Ferrari's website. “The result is down to the efforts of all our people, who never give up. Now we have to continue working like this, to improve the car so that it is competitive at all the circuits we will encounter.

“Alonso and Massa also did very well, giving their all throughout the weekend. The polemics are of no interest to me. I simply reaffirm what I have always maintained, which is that our drivers are very well aware, and it is something they have to stick to, that if one races for Ferrari, then the interests of the team come before those of the individual.

“In any case, these things have happened since the days of Nuvolari, and I experienced it myself when I was Sporting Director, in the days of Niki Lauda and not just then. ... Therefore, enough of this hypocrisy, even if I can well believe that some people might well have liked to see our two drivers eliminate one another. But that is definitely not the case for me or indeed for our fans.”

Is Luca's last paragraph here trying to justify the whole situation implying that their drivers can't execute a safe pass? Treat your fans with some dignity, you did was was right for Ferrari, not Ferrari's fans. People's opinion of Ferrari will not change they understand in the end it's a business that's obligated to the sponsors first and the fans second.

Famour quote from Enzo Ferrari himself.

"When Ferrari wins, our cars win. When Ferrari loses, our drivers lose."

This clearly indicates the Enzo himself always put his cars and team before any driver. Montezemolo is only doing what Enzo himself would of done. Surely this cannot be wrong as it is in the legacy of Enzo Ferrari himself. Now who on the forum dares to speak badly of Enzo Ferrari, the great man and founder of Scuderia Ferrari and all their wonderful road cars?

Enzo Ferrari spoke English?

You're right that Ferrari did, what Ferrari (Enzo) would have done.

Lions eat baby zebras and that's the way of the world. You know both sides of the story and I'm glad that both sides exist but my point of being robbed of a great battle is just as valid as Ferrari doing what 3/4 of the teams on the grid would have done given the same situation.

Yeah, but Ferrari don't really care that much about the great battle. You could say that for a lot of things, when we have the person on pole just zooming of in the distance we're also robbed of a battle,

[What's Burning?]

Yeah, but Ferrari don't really care that much about the great battle. You could say that for a lot of things, when we have the person on pole just zooming of in the distance we're also robbed of a battle,

I understand, but in those instances no one claims that there would have been a great battle since that driver earned the pole position and then had the skill to not F' it up and run away with the win. (I'm not singling out Vettle here)

Hopefully there was a battle for 2nd and 3rd that race

[What's Burning?]

Wow... no yelling or screaming or name calling in this thread of late, very good boys and girls.

Civil indeed.

[vaptin]

Yeah, but Ferrari don't really care that much about the great battle. You could say that for a lot of things, when we have the person on pole just zooming of in the distance we're also robbed of a battle,

I understand, but in those instances no one claims that there would have been a great battle since that driver earned the pole position and then had the skill to not F' it up and run away with the win. (I'm not singling out Vettle here)

Hopefully there was a battle for 2nd and 3rd that race

Heh, at least we're being civil,

I don't think the line between drivers skill is necessarily so straightforward, you could say although the driver was good, getting on pole and pulling a massive lead was also the team providing for him with a exceptionally fast car.

[f1ea]

Brundel's now written a blog on it:

More than a couple of people have been honest, intelligent and cold enough to understand it.

Maybe after the initial shock goes away, people will understand with an objective mind. Including Massa.

[bud]

Brundel's now written a blog on it:

More than a couple of people have been honest, intelligent and cold enough to understand it.

Maybe after the initial shock goes away, people will understand with an objective mind. Including Massa.

are you saying people that disagree with it aren't intelligent enough to understand it?

[f1ea]

are you saying people that disagree with it aren't intelligent enough to understand it?

Those who disagree aren't cold enough to understand it. And you have to be intelligent and honest to be cold enough. When people are dreaming of rainbows and romanticism they are not cold... they are clouded.

Ferrari needed that. Whoever doesnt see it is either dishonest or simply dumb, or pretending... maybe by the heat of the moment, but nonetheless...

[bud]

I and i am sure a lot of other people would take offence to that comment, thats a loud of crap! we all know why Ferrari did it, people that are against it are so because:
A. its still too early in the season to back one driver
B. There is a rule against doing it, especially so blatantly. You would think a team like Ferrari the team order kings would have been smarter about it!

[billindenver]

I and i am sure a lot of other people would take offence to that comment, thats a loud of crap! we all know why Ferrari did it, people that are against it are so because:
A. its still too early in the season to back one driver
B. There is a rule against doing it, especially so blatantly. You would think a team like Ferrari the team order kings would have been smarter about it!

What a LOAD. You are not against it when McLaren does it. You are not against it when their doing it changes the outcome of the championship. You are against anything and everything any team (especially ferrari) does that you can find a reason to get all dramatic over...provided it isn't McLaren. You defended McLaren when they attempted to steal a position by lying about it and got caught, but you get all emotional and judgmental over a possible ferrari team order. Basically, you look for a soap opera scene you can act out online..and then you do so in order to make your life seem more interesting.