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[vaptin]

If he leaves, will he get a better drive than what he has at Ferrari? Scoring higher? I truthfully don't think so. Hekki certainly didn't, and I'd say his performances were comparable to Massa's.

[andrew]

Better in the short term, no. Better in the longer term, quite posibly.

[What's Burning?]

You guys should start a That's Massa thread. I'll gladly move the last dozen or so posts over to get the ball rolling.

[vaptin]

You guys should start a That's Massa thread. I'll gladly move the last dozen or so post over to get the ball rolling.

You gonna move the posts saying he was going to crash into a McLaren of the start line too

[andrew]

No, it'll just get messy, much like the Maldo thread. The Massa issue in the Italian GP is closed on my side.

[f1ea]

It all depends on what Massa wants. If he'd like to drive for the sake of it, then any drive would be good. But if you consider the10.0 Megabucks plus the fact that management at Ferrari actually support him and very few teams actually have a car to fight for podiums, then i think so far he's been lucky. Very lucky. Ferrari could have easily put him pn a rpbation of spne sprt after the accident, who knows if he injured something in his brain? The brain is very complex and his injury was not a mere bruise. But the fact that Ferrari has kept with him fpr about 3 yrs of dissapoining results show he's not just there to move over every once in a while.

It looks like he's recovering. But the cold fact is Alonso caught him from 8 positions back and would have passed him regardless, after a bit of tire wear from both hurting their races, which would have left them both prone to Perez, Kimi and MS who were quite close. And really, Massa could have fought and not make it easy... But if by any chance they made contact and lost those pts.. In italy... oh boy.

I dont even see why there's still talk about this.

[spankyham]

No-one's been a bigger fan than me of Felipe, but, irrespective of the reason, he is being totally outclassed by Fernando. Perhaps a change to a different team is the spark he needs to revive his career.

Andrew, is there any doubt in your mind, that, without the team ordering Felipe to make way for Fernando, that Fernando would not have passed him? We all know that was a given.

Ferrari is definitely the only team that both publicly and on-track demands that the whole team act as a team. That includes putting personal results behind what is good for the team. There is no other team in F1 that is that team oriented. Some don't like it, fair enough, but me, I love that aspect of Ferrari. It has always and will always be the case.

Ferrari's methods in driver status hasn't changed since the days of Sir Enzo. A driver earns the status of #1 at Ferrari through their on-track performance.

At Ferrari it's team first - as I said previously, I absolutely love that.

[LewEngBridewell]

Well, it is, after all, a team sport.

[andrew]

No-one's been a bigger fan than me of Felipe, but, irrespective of the reason, he is being totally outclassed by Fernando. Perhaps a change to a different team is the spark he needs to revive his career.

I respectfully disgree with the bit in bold.

Andrew, is there any doubt in your mind, that, without the team ordering Felipe to make way for Fernando, that Fernando would not have passed him? We all know that was a given.

I think they should have been told to race and Alonso would have got the position on merit rather than as a matter of course.

Ferrari is definitely the only team that both publicly and on-track demands that the whole team act as a team. That includes putting personal results behind what is good for the team. There is no other team in F1 that is that team oriented. Some don't like it, fair enough, but me, I love that aspect of Ferrari. It has always and will always be the case.

Ferrari's methods in driver status hasn't changed since the days of Sir Enzo. A driver earns the status of #1 at Ferrari through their on-track performance.

At Ferrari it's team first - as I said previously, I absolutely love that.

Ferrari only have eyes for one driver these days. Massa could just not turn up and I doubt they would notice.

[spankyham]

Ferrari only have eyes for one driver these days.

Nando is #1 because he took that position through his on track achievements each year he's been at Ferrari. I don't think even your could deny that Nando has clearly and consistently outperformed Felipe. And that's coming from someone who is a huge Felipe fan.

As I said, it is team first at Ferrari - always (as even Schumi learned during his time at SF).

[bud]

You could look at it that way, or you could also say Felipe isnt treated the same way as his team mate, isnt given the same support, the same attention, the same motivation to perform knowing youre only going to be second best. The Ferrari #2 is a death trap for a drivers career and own ambitions.

[Hammer278]

You could look at it that way, or you could also say Felipe isnt treated the same way as his team mate, isnt given the same support, the same attention, the same motivation to perform knowing youre only going to be second best. The Ferrari #2 is a death trap for a drivers career and own ambitions.

Case in point....Rubens, Irvine, Massa. Massa had some heyday for some reason when Raikkonen was there, maybe because Kimi isn't the type who needs too much attention and support over his teammate so Ferrari had a solitary year of 'equality'.

[Denthúl]

You could look at it that way, or you could also say Felipe isnt treated the same way as his team mate, isnt given the same support, the same attention, the same motivation to perform knowing youre only going to be second best. The Ferrari #2 is a death trap for a drivers career and own ambitions.

Haven't seen you around for a while!

[Ferrari man 009]

You could look at it that way, or you could also say Felipe isnt treated the same way as his team mate, isnt given the same support, the same attention, the same motivation to perform knowing youre only going to be second best. The Ferrari #2 is a death trap for a drivers career and own ambitions.

Case in point....Rubens, Irvine, Massa. Massa had some heyday for some reason when Raikkonen was there, maybe because Kimi isn't the type who needs too much attention and support over his teammate so Ferrari had a solitary year of 'equality'.

Yeah but it works the other way too - When Irvine was fighting for the championship in 99, Schumacher was number 2 on his return. There were races in that season that showed me he wasnt good enough to be number 1 in a top team - races like Nurburgring and Japan to name 2. Nurburgring he had to lead the team on tyre choice and didnt, and in Japan when it really mattered he was nowhere all weekend.

I still think had the unfortunate incident at Silverstone not happened, that Schumacher would have won the 99 championship. The Ferrari was good enough that season, as showed when Irvine was on form he was unstoppable at times, but I think Schumacher showed in Malaysia how much quicker he was, and therefore deserved to be number 1 going forward. I take your point about Barrichello not being given a chance to win consistently, however, I dont agree Massa hasnt had a chance - he hasnt been the same driver since the crash, I can count on 1 hand the amount of good races he has had since (Germany 2010, Monza 2010, Silverstone 2012, Monaco 2012 Monza 2012)

[scotty]

Personally the only thing i give a crap about is that Mika Salo was robbed of his only shot at a win, that still bugs me a bit Couldn't care less about the rest of em.