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[EwanM]

He hardly left them for more money. He gave some chicken and bull story about wanting to win the title with Mclaren.

[billindenver]

Not to mention the ONLY reason Alonso started looking for another ride is that Renault said they were leaving F1. By the time they decided to stay, Alonso had received and accepted another offer. So, either csrracer wasn't watching F1 back then, or is trying to rewrite history in order to make some obscure point valid. He did not leave for more money. This was discussed during many of the races that year and in the press. Alonso needed a ride and wasn't sure he would have one with Renault so he did exactly what you will do when you are old enough to get a job...he looked for another one when it looked like his was going away.

I find it very funny that every time Hamilton does something stupid, his fans start harping on what Schumi did or what Alonso did. The funniest part about all of that, is those same hypocrits were the ones screaming bloody murder when Schumi or Alonso did it...but they refuse to so much as admit any fault in their hero. Nobody has claimed that Hamilton can not drive or lacks the skillset, but the Hammy Lammies claim he is the next coming of Senna and has more character than Schumi and would never be the crying baby that Alonso certainly was at McLaren...yet when he makes huge mistakes or acts like a teenage kid...oh, it's not his fault, the poor little guy was just given bad advice or was poorly managed. I certainly recall Alonso whining and making himself look bad back when McLaren were not backing him and I was very critical of the way he handled it...yet I don't recall him ever calling a press conference in the interview room and throwing his team under the bus. Part of his meltdown with Ron Denis was from Alonso telling the FIA about the emails etc over spygate...he told the truth and was not penalized by the FIA. The lambs threw a fit over that, yet when Hamilton lies, lies again, is allowed to listen to the audio tape and then lies again....oh, it's not his fault, he was told to do that. Gee, I wonder if McLaren told Alonso he should lie about the Spygate emails? Sure they did, and he refused. Yes, that melted down his relationship with McLaren...but I would think Hamilton's press conference probably did more damage to the team.

[EwanM]

Not to mention the ONLY reason Alonso started looking for another ride is that Renault said they were leaving F1. By the time they decided to stay, Alonso had received and accepted another offer...

I find it very funny that every time Hamilton does something stupid, his fans start harping on what Schumi did or what Alonso did.

Both very true points billindenver

[Denthúl]

Not to mention the ONLY reason Alonso started looking for another ride is that Renault said they were leaving F1. By the time they decided to stay, Alonso had received and accepted another offer...

I find it very funny that every time Hamilton does something stupid, his fans start harping on what Schumi did or what Alonso did.

Both very true points billindenver

I agree.

[csrracer]

Not to mention the ONLY reason Alonso started looking for another ride is that Renault said they were leaving F1. By the time they decided to stay, Alonso had received and accepted another offer. So, either csrracer wasn't watching F1 back then, or is trying to rewrite history in order to make some obscure point valid. He did not leave for more money. This was discussed during many of the races that year and in the press. Alonso needed a ride and wasn't sure he would have one with Renault so he did exactly what you will do when you are old enough to get a job...he looked for another one when it looked like his was going away.

I find it very funny that every time Hamilton does something stupid, his fans start harping on what Schumi did or what Alonso did. The funniest part about all of that, is those same hypocrits were the ones screaming bloody murder when Schumi or Alonso did it...but they refuse to so much as admit any fault in their hero. Nobody has claimed that Hamilton can not drive or lacks the skillset, but the Hammy Lammies claim he is the next coming of Senna and has more character than Schumi and would never be the crying baby that Alonso certainly was at McLaren...yet when he makes huge mistakes or acts like a teenage kid...oh, it's not his fault, the poor little guy was just given bad advice or was poorly managed. I certainly recall Alonso whining and making himself look bad back when McLaren were not backing him and I was very critical of the way he handled it...yet I don't recall him ever calling a press conference in the interview room and throwing his team under the bus. Part of his meltdown with Ron Denis was from Alonso telling the FIA about the emails etc over spygate...he told the truth and was not penalized by the FIA. The lambs threw a fit over that, yet when Hamilton lies, lies again, is allowed to listen to the audio tape and then lies again....oh, it's not his fault, he was told to do that. Gee, I wonder if McLaren told Alonso he should lie about the Spygate emails? Sure they did, and he refused. Yes, that melted down his relationship with McLaren...but I would think Hamilton's press conference probably did more damage to the team.

Bill I've been watching F1 since GV was driving for Ferrari so the old enough statement doesn't apply.(thanks for the personal attack though)
I make no claim that Hamilton is the second coming of anyone, I do claim that after only 2 years in the sport he's proven to be a very fast and capable driver, That gets blasted and put down more for what happens off the track according to the media,then for what happens on the track. I think he showed absolute Horrible character in Lie-Gate, but I still think it's Mclaren's Management to blame for this going on for so long. From the second the first Stewards meeting was over Mclaren's management should have been working on fixing the Lies told wether they were Hamilton's initial lies or the Managements Initial lies, it should have never gotten past the second FIA meeting. Alonso's issues at Mclaren started before Spygate FIA started looking into what was going on at Mclaren after Alonso was penalized for holding Hamilton up in qualifying (2007 Hungary). Mclaren as you say has a recent history of telling it's driver's to lie, this scandal is no different. If Hamilton's press conference did damage to the team then they deserve it, It was the teams piss poor management that have taken lie-gate so far and the teams piss poor management that handled Alonso and Spy-Gate so poorly.

[billindenver]

Bill I've been watching F1 since GV was driving for Ferrari so the old enough statement doesn't apply.(thanks for the personal attack though)
I make no claim that Hamilton is the second coming of anyone, I do claim that after only 2 years in the sport he's proven to be a very fast and capable driver, That gets blasted and put down more for what happens off the track according to the media,then for what happens on the track. I think he showed absolute Horrible character in Lie-Gate, but I still think it's Mclaren's Management to blame for this going on for so long. From the second the first Stewards meeting was over Mclaren's management should have been working on fixing the Lies told wether they were Hamilton's initial lies or the Managements Initial lies, it should have never gotten past the second FIA meeting. Alonso's issues at Mclaren started before Spygate FIA started looking into what was going on at Mclaren after Alonso was penalized for holding Hamilton up in qualifying (2007 Hungary). Mclaren as you say has a recent history of telling it's driver's to lie, this scandal is no different. If Hamilton's press conference did damage to the team then they deserve it, It was the teams piss poor management that have taken lie-gate so far and the teams piss poor management that handled Alonso and Spy-Gate so poorly.

Ok, lets review. First you said this:

When Alonso did leave the team that gave him a WDC to chase more $$$ make him such a noble man. Alonso totally walked out on Renault when things weren't going his way even if they were treating him so well. That's not speculating that's fact.

Which is incorrect from start to finish...has not one single fact in it and isn't even speculation since the truth is in print and widely known. You were slinging mud in the hope that nobody would call you out on it.

Then you said this:

So I guess the fact that he left a winning team for more cash makes him a better man? It makes him totally ungrateful and on the same level as Hamilton

Which as I said is another attempt from a Hamilton fan to say that your hero's ungrateful actions are justified because Alonso did something similar. The lie of course is that Alonso never did what you claim, and that fact is widely known. Again, you were hoping nobody would notice your change of history. The tactic is called muddying the waters...you are trying to cloud the truth of what your boy did by pointing fingers at others and making things up out of thin air. All I did was point out your errors...though perhaps I was wrong about your age. It does seem strange though because we are not talking about many years ago here and your version of history is so completely wrong that if you were not too young to remember, then you must be intentionally trying to lead others astray.

Now you have said this:

after Alonso was penalized for holding Hamilton up in qualifying (2007 Hungary).

Which again is not quite truthful. A lie of omission is still a lie. Alonso was penalized for holding up Hamilton...true, but what you leave out is that Hamilton was given a team order to allow Alonso out first in quali and Hamilton ignored that order. Back then the theory on that track was the driver who was out first in third quali would get one more lap in than the second driver out...which would give him an advantage for pole. The drivers were given that advantage in turns, yet Hamilton decided not to wait his turn and snubbed Alonso. Alonso quite rightly was upset by that, and showed it. The FIA got involved for whatever reason, but in the end result it was Hamilton who brought on that conflict by ignoring a team order and if McLaren had played it fairly between the two drivers they would have penalized Hamilton themselves.

[csrracer]

Your points are well taken, and yes I may have left out a few facts, I admit my mistakes, I will take the loss of Championship points that I deserve from Australia, and do everything within my power to make sure this doesn't happen whithin my team again.
But my point which I think you agree with, is that Mclaren is doing a piss poor job of managing their team and their drivers. They were doing it in 2007 with Alonso and they are continuing to do it in 2009 with Hamiliton. I think it is way to early in Hamilton's career to compare him with Schumacher and even Alonso, I only make the comparison because I don't think any of them are squeaky clean.

[Lordblackstuff]

Hi all I have read a few of the posts and it is my first time posting here so Hello to all.

I have watched Lewis Hamilton race since the start of his career and he is very impressive Im sure you will all agree.

He makes me feel proud to watch him race and I never miss it when he is on the telly
.He was the reason I got a Sky package and its worth every penny.

The carry on in the last Grand Prix was out of order when he was disqualified.They obviously have an axe to grind with him what were the officials thinking of.
If I was his manager I wouldnt be best pleased but hopefully Lewis will put it behind him and continue his blistering run.
What a star he is the best this country has produced for a long long time

[billindenver]

Your points are well taken, and yes I may have left out a few facts, I admit my mistakes, I will take the loss of Championship points that I deserve from Australia, and do everything within my power to make sure this doesn't happen whithin my team again.
But my point which I think you agree with, is that Mclaren is doing a piss poor job of managing their team and their drivers. They were doing it in 2007 with Alonso and they are continuing to do it in 2009 with Hamiliton. I think it is way to early in Hamilton's career to compare him with Schumacher and even Alonso, I only make the comparison because I don't think any of them are squeaky clean.

You will not get any argument from me as far as McLaren management making horrible decisions. Where we will likely drive on different sides of the road however is that I believe one of those bad decisions was backing Hamilton over Alonso instead of giving them an even playing field from which to battle it out. I also believe Hamilton is responsible for the meltdown with Alonso and shares equally in the attempt to deceive the stewards. His forcing of backmarkers into the grass last year and holding the press conference recently to declare his 'apology for allowing others to force him to do wrong' show two of the personality traits of his that I just can not stand. He has no respect for other drivers and not enough character to take responsibility for his own actions. Perhaps he will mature eventually and become what I believe a champion should be...but until then, I just don't like him. I didn't used to care much for Massa due to his crying all the time, but the last race of last year he really showed a champions heart so my opinion of him has changed somewhat. Alonso was once a favorite of mine, but I despised how he handled McLaren's mistreatment of him...sure I thought he had a point, but the way he handled it was childish...so I didn't like him much that year...he has shut up for the most part so I'm liking him better these days. The point being, maybe Hamilton will one day quit being such an arrogant, self centered twat...so I can better appreciate his skills....but at present, I will heartily cheer for anyone who punts him into a wall.

In truth, I don't even so much care that Hamilton lied....what irks me more than anything is that when he got caught he reacted in such a public way and tried to blame everyone else instead of accepting his portion of the blame and moving on.

[Tony_sa]

just let the s o b F-off quietly. he caused enuff controversy apart from giving people something to talk about.

[csrracer]

Your points are well taken, and yes I may have left out a few facts, I admit my mistakes, I will take the loss of Championship points that I deserve from Australia, and do everything within my power to make sure this doesn't happen whithin my team again.
But my point which I think you agree with, is that Mclaren is doing a piss poor job of managing their team and their drivers. They were doing it in 2007 with Alonso and they are continuing to do it in 2009 with Hamiliton. I think it is way to early in Hamilton's career to compare him with Schumacher and even Alonso, I only make the comparison because I don't think any of them are squeaky clean.

You will not get any argument from me as far as McLaren management making horrible decisions. Where we will likely drive on different sides of the road however is that I believe one of those bad decisions was backing Hamilton over Alonso instead of giving them an even playing field from which to battle it out. I also believe Hamilton is responsible for the meltdown with Alonso and shares equally in the attempt to deceive the stewards. His forcing of backmarkers into the grass last year and holding the press conference recently to declare his 'apology for allowing others to force him to do wrong' show two of the personality traits of his that I just can not stand. He has no respect for other drivers and not enough character to take responsibility for his own actions. Perhaps he will mature eventually and become what I believe a champion should be...but until then, I just don't like him. I didn't used to care much for Massa due to his crying all the time, but the last race of last year he really showed a champions heart so my opinion of him has changed somewhat. Alonso was once a favorite of mine, but I despised how he handled McLaren's mistreatment of him...sure I thought he had a point, but the way he handled it was childish...so I didn't like him much that year...he has shut up for the most part so I'm liking him better these days. The point being, maybe Hamilton will one day quit being such an arrogant, self centered twat...so I can better appreciate his skills....but at present, I will heartily cheer for anyone who punts him into a wall.

In truth, I don't even so much care that Hamilton lied....what irks me more than anything is that when he got caught he reacted in such a public way and tried to blame everyone else instead of accepting his portion of the blame and moving on.

I can't fault Hamilton for what he does on the race track, I don't see those actions as being any worse than what other driver's before him have done.(There's no point to argue this, as we will never agree.) I am in total agreement with you on Alonso and blamed him for much of his behavior with Mclaren, but now that I see how badly Mclaren handles these situations. I'm starting to see Alonso's complaining in a different light. In my opinion one of the reasons Lewis continues to have such a poor showing off the race track is due to his personal Manager and father Anthony. I admire what Anthony has done to get his son into a top F1 team, but it's time to let someone who has some experience with this level of racing take over. Lewis has some serious PR issues that I don't think his father is capable of getting him out of, and may be the reason he has these issues to begin with. He needs a manager that maybe isn't afraid to tell him that he looks like a total bottom in the press.There was no reason for him to go into that second FIA meeting and lie again, if Hamilton or Mclaren weren't smart enough to realize continuing to lie was not helping the situation, than his personal manager should have been.

[Kish]

I can't fault Hamilton for what he does on the race track, I don't see those actions as being any worse than what other driver's before him have done.(There's no point to argue this, as we will never agree.) I am in total agreement with you on Alonso and blamed him for much of his behavior with Mclaren, but now that I see how badly Mclaren handles these situations. I'm starting to see Alonso's complaining in a different light. In my opinion one of the reasons Lewis continues to have such a poor showing off the race track is do to his personal Manager and father Anthony. I admire what Anthony has done to get his son into a top F1 team, but it's time to let someone who has some experience with this level of racing take over. Lewis has some serious PR issues that I don't think his father is capable of getting him out of, and may be the reason he has these issues to begin with. He needs a manager that maybe isn't afraid to tell him that he looks like a total bottom in the press.There was no reason for him to go into that second FIA meeting and lie again, if Hamilton or Mclaren weren't smart enough to realize continuing to lie was not helping the situation, than his personal manager should have been.

Good point, Well said. Perhaps Hamiltons old man has taken him as far as he can.

Does anyone know for sure if the old man was involved in the first meeting ?

The way I kinda had it figured was that McLaren grabed Hamilton without the old man for the first meeting, and thats why he was so pissed. But subsequent meetings and P.R. smacks of the same cluster fvck operational direction. So maybe the old man was up to speed from the begining, and he is just bitter because the bullsh*t didn't fly.

[MAD MAX]

Hi all I have read a few of the posts and it is my first time posting here so Hello to all.

I have watched Lewis Hamilton race since the start of his career and he is very impressive Im sure you will all agree.

He makes me feel proud to watch him race and I never miss it when he is on the telly
.He was the reason I got a Sky package and its worth every penny.

The carry on in the last Grand Prix was out of order when he was disqualified.They obviously have an axe to grind with him what were the officials thinking of.
If I was his manager I wouldnt be best pleased but hopefully Lewis will put it behind him and continue his blistering run.
What a star he is the best this country has produced for a long long time

Amen to that.

[Jensonb]

The carry on in the last Grand Prix was out of order when he was disqualified.They obviously have an axe to grind with him what were the officials thinking of.
If I was his manager I wouldnt be best pleased but hopefully Lewis will put it behind him and continue his blistering run.
What a star he is the best this country has produced for a long long time

Pseudo-patriotic drivel. He lied to the Stewards. Axe to grind nothing, he did the wrong thing.

[darwin dali]

The carry on in the last Grand Prix was out of order when he was disqualified.They obviously have an axe to grind with him what were the officials thinking of.

Get your facts straight about what and how everything went down so that you can post an informed opinion.