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[spankyham]

Team Orders are an emotional issue, I don't think you were around when they were hotly debated just after Germany this year. I'm just giving my view, but, I understand there are other views on this.

In every other sport the'' whole team wins''

Agreed. When a team member wins an individual award, eg golden boot, or, in Australian Rules football the Brownlow, Coleman or Norm Smith medal, it is a team achievement as well. What's more, none of those are ever achieved at the expense of the team winning.

And Massa went on record as well! if he became 2nd Rubens he would ..................................................

Because "forward A" kicks 10 goals last week and "forward B" kicks none, doesn't make B a lesser forward into the future. B might have passed the ball to his team-mate to kick all of the 10 goals. A might win the Coleman medal. None of those mean anyone is 2nd, nor does it mean that passing the ball, to ensure your team wins and scores, is anything but a good thing.

The team winning is the prime objective, and great teams, and great team members do everything necessary to ensure that happens. Who the driver is, in that winning car is secondary to the goal of ensuring the team wins.

Team's can now develop strategies and plans to ensure the team wins, just like every other team sport. And, incidentally, team orders have been a universally accepted part of F1 for most of F1's history. Team orders are universally accepted in other motor sports. Team orders are teams being teams.

[myownalias]

Although I dislike the idea of allowing team orders, at least with the team orders ban lifted we can avoid all the over-the-top BS that we had after Germany!

But what I will say; if F1 is going to be a "team sport", let's abolish the drivers championship, drivers earn points for the team and not for personal gain! As for JB leaving F1, I hadn't heard that quote before and frankly it's probably been misrepresented by the Irish Telegraph, until I hear it from a reliable source, I don't believe it. Beside, just because team orders are allowed, it doesn't mean that every team will use them, especially in a team like McLaren in the current line up of back to back world champions.

[nish2280]

I guess you would say the New York times too is an "unreliable source".

[racechick]

Jens has said on numerous occassions that he dislikes and wont work in a team where team orders are applied. It was one of the conditions of him going to Mclaren and the reason Mclaren bent over backwards, changing around engineers to make sure there was no advantage to one side of the garage. Ive not read the Telegraph quote, but the sentiment is certainly Jensons. Has he said he'll leave this season?

[Robert12010]

Jens has said on numerous occassions that he dislikes and wont work in a team where team orders are applied. It was one of the conditions of him going to Mclaren and the reason Mclaren bent over backwards, changing around engineers to make sure there was no advantage to one side of the garage. Ive not read the Telegraph quote, but the sentiment is certainly Jensons. Has he said he'll leave this season?

the quote thats being referred to, jenson basicly said whats being mentioned earlier in the thread, but he hasnt said he would leave this season, and i think that now with the people that are part of the mclaren management, i think that there is less chance of team orders under martin whitmarsh and the calmer management that is around the team now that ron dennis has taken a new role in the mclaren company and before all you ferrari lambs go ahh what about turkey blah blah blah, both lewis and jenson were saving fuel at the end of that race,

another point id like to make is now with team orders allowed, poor old massa is goingto have to move over anytime that alonso is behind him and starts shaking his fist and this point is one side where the driver with the best chance of winning the drivers championship is infront through team orders so that the team have success in that sense,

but then there is the other side too, the fans want to see racing drivers do what they do best, race!, and i think thats where mclaren and red bull have better this season than ferrari because they have let the drivers race each other rather than what we seen in germany!

[texasmr2]

Well hopefully the part about bringing the sport into disrepute will be honored in a way that team orders will only be used when we are nearing the end of the championship. Meaning when one teammmate is out of contention for the WDC as another forum member had mentioned awhile back.

One thing is foresure and that is it will be a VERY interesting season indeed .

[vaptin]

You dont get it! When you take a proffesional competitive athlete and tell him that he cant be competitive the end result is (2010 Massa)

My point is how many (2010 massas) will there be on the grid? UNMOTIVATED racing drivers!!!

Strange that Massa seemed to have been driving better after Germany though, he was pretty crap all year round anyway.

Just because ferrari uses them and its fans are fine with them,not all of us have to be! We all saw Lewis whoop Jenson but I'm not ok with him being a #2! Webber as well!

I want to see every driver entering a RACE WEEKEND knowing that they could possibly come out VICTORIOUS (NOT ONLY HALF OF THEM)

I didn't say everyone had to use them, you seem to be insisting that it'll happen. It's generally not really in the teams interests to tell one driver they need to throw a race win away, so it won't happen alot.

this is another example of FIA serving ferraris needs!!! what does JEAN TODT do nowdays???

This is the FIA being sensible, Todt's already been an exemplary president of the FIA, he even fired a shot at Tilke circuits that you can't pass at.

The rule hasn't been enforced since its inception, there's no point in having it. It's not just Ferrari who have used team orders anyway.

The Fia have set a legal precedent now with the ban on team orders rule, they can't enforce it even if they wanted to now as they haven't in the past.

[racechick]

Well hopefully the part about bringing the sport into disrepute will be honored in a way that team orders will only be used when we are nearing the end of the championship. Meaning when one teammmate is out of contention for the WDC as another forum member had mentioned awhile back.

One thing is foresure and that is it will be a VERY interesting season indeed .

Agree with you Tex On both points.

[spankyham]

Well hopefully the part about bringing the sport into disrepute will be honored in a way that team orders will only be used when we are nearing the end of the championship. Meaning when one teammmate is out of contention for the WDC as another forum member had mentioned awhile back.

One thing is foresure and that is it will be a VERY interesting season indeed .

Just my opinion, but the "sport into disrepute" will never be used for a team order - no matter how overt. This is a standard clause in most organisations of this type. Basically, they are invoked or used when a person or team is charged with something seriously illegal. Definitely not something that is practiced/accepted elsewhere.

Not only that, but it is a very hard clause to use and make stick - we have a very good recent example - Flav, he took the FiA on and won - despite what he did.

No, next year teams will in F1, just like they used to in the past, and like they do in other motor sports, give clear explicit team orders. For me, teams will be able to be teams.

Myown is somewhat right in suggesting the WDC should be changed, although I don't agree it should be done away with. What it needs is to return to an emphasis that it is because of the team, that the driver can win - just like the golden boot in soccer, or the Brownlow medal in Australian Rules Football.

[FRAFPDD]

Although I dislike the idea of allowing team orders, at least with the team orders ban lifted we can avoid all the over-the-top BS that we had after Germany!

But what I will say; if F1 is going to be a "team sport", let's abolish the drivers championship, drivers earn points for the team and not for personal gain! As for JB leaving F1, I hadn't heard that quote before and frankly it's probably been misrepresented by the Irish Telegraph, until I hear it from a reliable source, I don't believe it. Beside, just because team orders are allowed, it doesn't mean that every team will use them, especially in a team like McLaren in the current line up of back to back world champions.

ive found a flaw in your sig, what if the russian roulette players have a death wish, everybody wins!

[FRAFPDD]

Well hopefully the part about bringing the sport into disrepute will be honored in a way that team orders will only be used when we are nearing the end of the championship. Meaning when one teammmate is out of contention for the WDC as another forum member had mentioned awhile back.

One thing is foresure and that is it will be a VERY interesting season indeed .

I think the only thing that will change next season is ferrari might employ team orders from bahrain, mclaren look to henuinely promote equality and vettel doesnt now need team orders really. i couldnt care less about team orders now its allowed, its just when its not that its annoying, cause its then against the rules,

[texasmr2]

I couldnt care less about team orders now its allowed, its just when its not that its annoying, cause its then against the rules,

I agree and just because I'm more of a Ferrari fan than of other teams it does not mean I did not get annoyed with past indiscretions, we need equality.

[billindenver]

If you want team orders gone, take the second car away. Otherwise there are things in life that are a certainty, that railing against will only waste your time. One of those things is that when a team has millions invested in an outcome....more often than not they will do whatever they can to bring about a positive outcome. Ditch the second car, or learn to live with team orders. Cycling is as team order oriented as could possibly be imagined and yet the sport lives on. Surely F1 fans are equally able to understand the team concept.

If both drivers are capable of winning the championship, the team will let them run. But if the best chance of the team lies with one driver...they will back him, as it always has been.

[texasmr2]

Pretty much sum's it up even for the senile.

[The_Stig_Money]

Even though the team orders ban is now lifted there will still be as much controversy if not more.

Now there is not a small fine for it. Ash tray money for the big teams

Cant wait for the 2011 season!