FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[texasmr2]

Did u mean ECU?

No.

Yeah he got his M and E mixed up
M.E.S. McLaren Electronic Systems. And the FIA bought the contract for the control ECU. There is no controlled KERS so there is no similar situation to the ECU.

Correct just seeing who would catch my pun first, !

[Jabberwocky]

Will Williams' fly wheel be allowed with the new regs?

Williams have dumped the fly wheel, they're using battery operate KERS like all the others. Why? Dont know. This is despite them just winning an award with it.

According to the article Spanky provided Head said tis because of the allowed weight difference of the cars now and the fact you can mould the batteries any way you like which will help diminish its weight impact.

I would imagine there is a gyroscopic effect as well

[nish2280]

I think the Williams flywheel is too dangerous and to much effort.

It needs to be spun at 100k rpm which means it generates A LOT of heat, which means it needs a vacuum and it's own air intakes. This results in LOTS of space occupied.

It also has a very strong magnet which is used to keep the flywheel spinning which could interfere with other car components, for example, the gearbox.

[Jabberwocky]

How about taking it one step further.

Electric motors on each wheel. powered by a generator that is a 2.4L v8 engine. (Like a Diesel electric locomotive)

with an AC motor you could still use the "braking" energy to generate electricity. but you would have the extra weight of invertors then

[texasmr2]

With the extra development time F1 has had (or lack there of because of the FIA's inconsistency) McLaren's unit may have some rivals next season but I still see their KERS unit to be at the top of the list.

[What's Burning?]

Will Williams' fly wheel be allowed with the new regs?

Williams have dumped the fly wheel, they're using battery operate KERS like all the others. Why? Dont know. This is despite them just winning an award with it.

According to the article Spanky provided Head said tis because of the allowed weight difference of the cars now and the fact you can mould the batteries any way you like which will help diminish its weight impact.

I would imagine there is a gyroscopic effect as well

In a horizontal plane, it wouldn't be a bad thing. There are gyroscopic effects on the four corners of the cars as well and those don't seem to cause issues.

[What's Burning?]

I think the Williams flywheel is too dangerous and to much effort.

It needs to be spun at 100k rpm which means it generates A LOT of heat, which means it needs a vacuum and it's own air intakes. This results in LOTS of space occupied.

It also has a very strong magnet which is used to keep the flywheel spinning which could interfere with other car components, for example, the gearbox.

Porsche used it successfully... but it's all about weight when racing.

Cutting added weight

The weight penalty imposed by the addition of the hybrid system is 285 pounds (130 kg), with the flywheel representing just over 100 pounds (47 kg) and what Porsche calls the "portal axle" assembly up front another 150 (68 kg).

Asked what was next for the 911 GT3 R Hybrid program, Armbruster said that integrating the mechanical components (and cooling systems) would make sense.

The goal would be to get the hybrid GT3 down to the weight of the standard GT3, to make it possible to compare the two cars' fuel consumption and performance directly.

And, Armbruster added, "we will build a new car shortly with a new system" that will "get rid of the added weight."

[texasmr2]

Porsche used it successfully... but it's all about weight when racing.

And weight distribution.

[nish2280]

I think the Williams flywheel is too dangerous and to much effort.

It needs to be spun at 100k rpm which means it generates A LOT of heat, which means it needs a vacuum and it's own air intakes. This results in LOTS of space occupied.

It also has a very strong magnet which is used to keep the flywheel spinning which could interfere with other car components, for example, the gearbox.

Porsche used it successfully... but it's all about weight when racing.

Cutting added weight

The weight penalty imposed by the addition of the hybrid system is 285 pounds (130 kg), with the flywheel representing just over 100 pounds (47 kg) and what Porsche calls the "portal axle" assembly up front another 150 (68 kg).

Asked what was next for the 911 GT3 R Hybrid program, Armbruster said that integrating the mechanical components (and cooling systems) would make sense.

The goal would be to get the hybrid GT3 down to the weight of the standard GT3, to make it possible to compare the two cars' fuel consumption and performance directly.

And, Armbruster added, "we will build a new car shortly with a new system" that will "get rid of the added weight."

Yes but it was packed in a 911 which is technically still a road car converted into a race car (or the other way around depending on your loyalties). However as you would expect an F1 car has a much tighter package meaning that if the flywheel is installed there will have to be a compromise in some other aspect of the car.

Also, i think that the mass of the batteries may be easier to place in the car in regards to the C of G as i assume they will require less volume and can be placed quite low, maybe under the fuel tank. Whereas the flywheel with all its components may not require more volume.

I loved watching that Porsche down the straights, absolutely awesome.
Everything i am saying is pure assumption, none of this is based on any raw information

[thechainrule]

Will KERS be active when the new adjustable wing adjustment is active? IF so, this could be a very, very, interesting season.

[texasmr2]

Will KERS be active when the new adjustable wing adjustment is active? IF so, this could be a very, very, interesting season.

A good read to getcha up to date ,
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8784&hilit=adjustable+rear+wings

[thechainrule]

That doesnt answer the question.

Driver adjustable bodywork
From 2011, adjustable bodywork may be activated by the driver at any time prior to the start of the race and, for the sole purpose of improving overtaking opportunities during the race, after the driver has completed two laps. The driver may only activate the adjustable bodywork in the race when he has been notified via the control electronics that it is enabled. It will only be enabled if the driver is less than one second behind another at any of the pre-determined positions around each circuit. The system will be disabled the first time the driver uses the brakes after the system has been activated. The FIA may, after consulting all the competitors, adjust the time proximity in order to ensure the purpose of the adjustable bodywork is met.

Aerodynamic influence
With the exception of the parts necessary for the driver adjustable bodywork, any car system, device or procedure which uses driver movement as a means of altering the aerodynamic characteristics of the car is prohibited from 2011.

Weight
From 2011, the minimum weight of the car must not be less than 640 kg at all times during the event.

.

SO i guess its possible to have both KERS and the wing going for you at once.

[kerc]

It would be nice to see a KERS system made by Lucas Electrics.

* old British car joke *

[scotty]

i have read in several places over the course of the season that the power output is going up from 400 to 600/800kJ... perhaps that has changed, i dunno.

Indeed it remains the same - "The systems will be essentially the same as those seen in ’09, with no increase in the maximum permitted power (though that could change in subsequent seasons)."

In '09 there was an upside to not using KERS - it was the weight advantage. The 09 version of KERS for both Ferrari and McLaren was about 25Kgs. For the '11 season the cars minimum weight has been increased by 20Kgs (about the expected weight of the '11 rendition of KERS). FiA can't force cars to "use" KERS, but they can force them to carry the weight of it around in their cars. To a lesser degree (IMO) the weight distribution changes just add to making KERS essential if you want to be competitive.

Ah, i dunno, the weight advantage in '09 allowed for far better weight distribution (through the ballast) - Newey said it was preferential to have it as far forward as possible on those cars. There was also the obvious COG advantage... but it was slight. Arguably that will have a bigger impact on these non-refuelling cars, but will it cost more than the 3/4 tenths KERS would bring? Unlikely. Anyway, my point is that the teams can't use any potential extra ballast to improve the weight distribution and gain that way (a completely key advantage), so we basically agree at the same conclusion that KERS has been made essential.

[Robert12010]

I wonder if Red Bull will run kers next season?, i think that ferrari, mclaren and mercedes will run it, so i wonder if red bull will take the same approach or go down a different route