FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[f1ea]

No, he needed the option guys to burn out their tyres, His was a long first stint he wasnt going to race them on raw pace, just stay close enough and then build a gap once they pitted. A gap that would hopefully have been enough for a pit stip. But the SC period made the option guys go another 7 laps than expected and last longer on the options. Pre race Bridgestone predicted the options would last 12 laps tops on this green race track due to the rain. Having SC period pushed back this window and made their pit window a lot later.

How was he planning to build such a gap if the Red Bulls were always faster? By the time he went for his pit, the RBs would have been already on his tail.

[f1ea]

And yet... "cheat" hasnt been corroborated, by the entity appointed to corroborate...

come again?

I mean... Burning said Red Bulls being called cheats has been corroborated by fans of other teams and the media, but NOT corroborated by the entity that HAS to corroborate (ie FIA).........

corroborate is a word taken straight from spanish and english-ised... hehe

[bud]

No, he needed the option guys to burn out their tyres, His was a long first stint he wasnt going to race them on raw pace, just stay close enough and then build a gap once they pitted. A gap that would hopefully have been enough for a pit stip. But the SC period made the option guys go another 7 laps than expected and last longer on the options. Pre race Bridgestone predicted the options would last 12 laps tops on this green race track due to the rain. Having SC period pushed back this window and made their pit window a lot later.

How was he planning to build such a gap if the Red Bulls were always faster? By the time he went for his pit, the RBs would have been already on his tail.

by them pitting earlier than him. The plan was they would pit around 12-15 if he could stay out for the time he did but put in fast enough laps to build a gap. That was the plan it didnt pay off the team admitted this, that Jenson wasnt lapping fast enough on the prime to make it work. But without the SC that might have been different.
but you ever heard of hindsight mate? Youre saying facts that were proven after the race. We are talking about a strategy made in qualifying. Easy to rip it to pieces now.

[Hammer278]

Horner's mind games as usual, it's so obvious the guy has a vendetta against McLaren after they benefitted massively from his drivers' slipups earlier in the season and they forced his team to rebuild their freakin front wing to comply with regs.

[f1ea]

by them pitting earlier than him. The plan was they would pit around 12-15 if he could stay out for the time he did but put in fast enough laps to build a gap. That was the plan it didnt pay off the team admitted this, that Jenson wasnt lapping fast enough on the prime to make it work. But without the SC that might have been different.
but you ever heard of hindsight mate? Youre saying facts that were proven after the race. We are talking about a strategy made in qualifying. Easy to rip it to pieces now.

ahem... i mentioned hindsight before you did (look the posts above).
But what you're saying is more or less what i'm saying also (i understand that was Jenson's plan) except i'm also saying that it (the plan) wouldnt have worked even without the SC, because the RBs would have simply caught up on Jenson's long stint.

[bud]

ok the sc helped by them running less on fuel tanks at pace on the options no? Which means less tyre wear!

[f1ea]

ok the sc helped by them running less on fuel tanks at pace on the options no? Which means less tyre wear!

And less gap!

[darwin dali]

corroborate is a word taken straight from spanish and english-ised... hehe

Doubt that. It dates back to the 16th century and derives from Latin corroborare with robur = strength.

[f1ea]

corroborate is a word taken straight from spanish and english-ised... hehe

Doubt that. It dates back to the 16th century and derives from Latin corroborare with robur = strength.

Well, prof. Dali... you're wrong in your doubt... Never said we took the word from its root...

I took "corroborar" from spanish... and sent it to english by using the -ate suffix. Never mentioned its roots.
Dont even know if the word exists in english... but if it did, it should mean:

Corroborate: strengthens, supports...
ie Because the tests were passed, the FIA could not corroborate the cheat allegations made by Mclaren.

[vaptin]

Luca's mind games are a lot more amusing, Horner hasn't quite got the hang of it yet.

[darwin dali]

corroborate is a word taken straight from spanish and english-ised... hehe

Doubt that. It dates back to the 16th century and derives from Latin corroborare with robur = strength.

Well, prof. Dali... you're wrong in your doubt... Never said we took the word from its root...

I took "corroborar" from spanish... and sent it to english by using the -ate suffix. Never mentioned its roots.
Dont even know if the word exists in english... but if it did, it should mean:

Corroborate: strengthens, supports...
ie Because the tests were passed, the FIA could not corroborate the cheat allegations made by Mclaren.

Well, you phrased it wrong then by saying corroborate IS a word taken straight from Spanish. You should have mentioned that it was you who took it, otherwise it's a generalized statement that refers to the word's etymology in English. And unfortunate for your argument, corroborate is indeed a word in English, not even that obscure, so maybe look up such words before making generalized statements about them or claiming to have just come up with one from Spanish

[spankyham]

Another voice added to Horner's point of view:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motorsport/formulaonediary/8059602/Formula-One-Diary-Japanese-Grand-Prix.html

To quote from it:-
"Jenson Button's tyre gamble (unlike the other front-runners, he qualifies and starts on the harder Bridgestone) fails to pay, but McLaren takes an age to bring him into the pits to switch. His alternative strategy shuffles him to the front of the field for a while, which delays the Red Bulls and Fernando Alonso's Ferrari and makes them susceptible to attack from the fast-closing Lewis Hamilton. McLaren denies this was a deliberate ploy to assist Hamilton, but nobody believes its protestations. Button's race was already compromised and he was going to finish fifth come what may (although that became fourth when Hamilton stripped third gear), so why not use one car to benefit the other? It's called astute management – and keeping Button out until lap 38 would, in any other circumstances, have been rubbish racecraft. Fears about what does and doesn't constitute an outlawed team order have bred a peculiar strain of paranoia within the paddock."

So that's now Horner and Arron in agreement.
And, you can argue about whether Jenson wanted to start on Primes, but one things for sure, irrespective of whether he wanted to start on them, he sure as heck didn't want to stay out on them for as long as he was forced too.

[What's Burning?]

corroborate is a word taken straight from spanish and english-ised... hehe

Doubt that. It dates back to the 16th century and derives from Latin corroborare with robur = strength.

Well, prof. Dali... you're wrong in your doubt... Never said we took the word from its root...

I took "corroborar" from spanish... and sent it to english by using the -ate suffix. Never mentioned its roots.
Dont even know if the word exists in english... but if it did, it should mean:

Corroborate: strengthens, supports...
ie Because the tests were passed, the FIA could not corroborate the cheat allegations made by Mclaren.

Well, you phrased it wrong then by saying corroborate IS a word taken straight from Spanish. You should have mentioned that it was you who took it, otherwise it's a generalized statement that refers to the word's etymology in English. And unfortunate for your argument, corroborate is indeed a word in English, not even that obscure, so maybe look up such words before making generalized statements about them or claiming to have just come up with one from Spanish

I will type slower next time so there are no misinterpretations of the words I use.

[bud]

And, you can argue about whether Jenson wanted to start on Primes

There is no argument, ITs fact that he did. <- EDITED FOR CONTENT ->.

he sure as heck didn't want to stay out on them for as long as he was forced too.

Im sure as heck Felipe didnt want to let Alonso pass. But arent you all for the team management making calls?


You know its funny you have lambs like <- EDIT -> drilling McLaren int his circumstance yet I wonder what he was saying when Jenson decided to stay out on the drys in Australia? That gamble worked, and he is a hero. THis one didnt and theres all kinds of accusations being thrown around like a bunch of school girls being bitchy. How fickle.

[What's Burning?]

For some the thrill of victory is not enough if you can't rub the vanquished nose in it.