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[The Ram]

It is because Mclaren doesn't stand to benefit from team orders as much as other teams; teams that are looking for sponsorship, and respect. Mclaren has that already. I guess you can put a WDC in there too.. but Mclaren want their drivers to win the honourable way.

[vaptin]

It is because Mclaren doesn't stand to benefit from team orders as much as other teams; teams that are looking for sponsorship, and respect. Mclaren has that already. I guess you can put a WDC in there too.. but Mclaren want their drivers to win the honourable way.

Maybe, although the honour part is a matter of opinion.

[f1ea]

If one of them can no longer win and moves over it will be his decision because of these reasons NOT team orders.

There you go.

What do you mean "There you go"?

You only quoted part of what i said and it makes no sense. The reason they would move would be a personal decison(because they are friends, team mates and honourable) not a team order. This was the bit you didnt quote.

It means, there you go blinding yourself to the fact that it at some times absolutely reasonable to make a move for the teammate. It doesnt matter if they are friends or not. It doesnt make it any more honorable than anything else. To me it makes it even more honorable if its the team doing it, because its the statement NOBODY IS BIGGER THAN THE TEAM. Doing it for friendship would be the same (from a competition pt of view) as doing it for cash.

Lewis has been faster in both Quali and on Race days than Jenson all season which is exactly the same excuse people are giving Ferrari, yet that hasn't stopped Jenson being only slightly behind Lewis and at one point leading the WDC because of his wins.

When Ferrari made the decision there were 8 races left a possible 200 points to be won and Massa was what 30-40 behind Alonso? i would say the call was made way too early since as i said anything can happen in a race for all Ferrari knew Alonso could have gotten DNFs in several of the races where as Massa could have finished on the podium in every race.

Again you cant see into the future and so you can say Ferrari were smart but from looking at it several races later in the end it didn't really help at all, although in 5 races time it could be the deciding factor between who wins the WDC.

To me anyone claiming Ferrari did the right thing is stupid unless you could clearly see into the future which if you could than i advise you to place a bet and hope team orders don't screw you over on winning some £££.

Dont tell me Lewis has been faster in both qualy and the race... tell me about POINTS. Who the heck cares about being faster or not. Since when are drivers tied or not depending on their pace, they are tied or not depending on their POINTS. The teams care about THE POINTS and the gap to whoever is in front in terms of POINTS. Not friendship. POINTS.

If teams could see into the future then there would be no reason to race at all. Dont be ridiculous, they make the decisions with the situation AT HAND. They go to each race trying to maximise the results in the best way possible for the team. If 5 races later its Massa fighting closest to the leaders it will be decisions to favour Massa closing in on the pts lead. Even the situation about the gamble is not accurate. They dont gamble. They go for the possibility they understand yields the best result at the moment.

It is because Mclaren doesn't stand to benefit from team orders as much as other teams; teams that are looking for sponsorship, and respect. Mclaren has that already. I guess you can put a WDC in there too.. but Mclaren want their drivers to win the honourable way.

<edit> What a big huge pile of horse manure.
They dont. They have benefitted and have done it in the past and have done it in the not so distant past. They (not treally they, but their fans) simply want to call their way the honourable way because it is what fits them and gives them the best result at the moment. Right now, Mclaren are in the position where team orders do not benefit them, so they dont use them.

Oh the naivity...............

[racechick]

Jenson wouldnt be at mcLaren if there were team orders......

Oh the naivity........

[f1ea]

Jenson wouldnt be at mcLaren if there were team orders......

Oh the naivity........

Jenson wouldnt be able to even have this choice if he didnt have a credible championship run...

[racechick]

Jenson wouldnt be at mcLaren if there were team orders......

Oh the naivity........

Jenson wouldnt be able to even have this choice if he didnt have a credible championship run...

The terms were decided before his credible championship run.

[f1ea]

Jenson wouldnt be at mcLaren if there were team orders......

Oh the naivity........

Jenson wouldnt be able to even have this choice if he didnt have a credible championship run...

The terms were decided before his credible championship run.

And his contract is decided upon this credible championship run. But on a more important note:

if Mclaren doesnt do team orders..... why did he feel the need to stress this into his contract terms??
In such case, Mclaren are not doing anything more than honoring Jenson's contract terms then. Most teams already do that

See if you can remember this quote: "If your orders are always obeyed, why would Mr. Santiago be in any danger?"

[Jensonb]

If one of them can no longer win and moves over it will be his decision because of these reasons NOT team orders.

There you go.

What do you mean "There you go"?

You only quoted part of what i said and it makes no sense. The reason they would move would be a personal decison(because they are friends, team mates and honourable) not a team order. This was the bit you didnt quote.

It means, there you go blinding yourself to the fact that it at some times absolutely reasonable to make a move for the teammate. It doesnt matter if they are friends or not. It doesnt make it any more honorable than anything else. To me it makes it even more honorable if its the team doing it, because its the statement NOBODY IS BIGGER THAN THE TEAM. Doing it for friendship would be the same (from a competition pt of view) as doing it for cash.

That's "honourable" to you, is it? I don't think "honourable" means what you think it means. There is no honour in the team loudly declaring THERE IS NOBODY BIGGER THAN THE TEAM. That's not honour, that's pigheadedness. Honour would be the driver sending that kind of message unprompted. You know, like if they moved over in the last race so the championship they them self could not win went to their teammate of their own accord.

[f1ea]

That's "honourable" to you, is it? I don't think "honourable" means what you think it means. There is no honour in the team loudly declaring THERE IS NOBODY BIGGER THAN THE TEAM. That's not honour, that's pigheadedness. Honour would be the driver sending that kind of message unprompted. You know, like if they moved over in the last race so the championship they them self could not win went to their teammate of their own accord.

Ok, now i understand. I believe the teams to be the primary force. Of course, our heroes are the drivers, but the teams have and should be the ones to have the deciding force. The driver's ego is not on the list of priorities to the team. In the end, it could go both ways (for example Fernando could DNF the remaining races), but the team are the ones handling the decisions on a day to day basis and they should be the ones deciding that. Not the drivers. And i absolutely do feel Ferrari gives both their drivers the full support of the team.

I bet you'd never hear Stefano telling Alonso... we were racing Massa.

So maybe there's less honor in that situation? i dont know. i dont mind really.
All i know is that MClaren chooses to run their way because they feel it works best for them, not because it is honorable or because they want Jenson and Lewis to be best buddies...

[myownalias]

This McLaren news [e.g propaganda] article is basically a publicity stunt to try to discredit and distract Ferrari! McLaren have used team orders as much as Ferrari over the past seven years since the rule came into force. The timing of this news article was timed to coincide with Ferrari's home Grand Prix and the World Motorsport Council hearing about team orders, I would bet it was written before the hearing for release once the inevitable happened; e.g. Ferrari receiving no further punishment!

[Jensonb]

This McLaren news [e.g propaganda] article is basically a publicity stunt to try to discredit and distract Ferrari! McLaren have used team orders as much as Ferrari over the past seven years since the rule came into force. The timing of this news article was timed to coincide with Ferrari's home Grand Prix and the World Motorsport Council hearing about team orders, I would bet it was written before the hearing for release once the inevitable happened; e.g. Ferrari receiving no further punishment!

Uh-huh. And the government put chloride in the water to control our minds too.

[myownalias]

This McLaren news [e.g propaganda] article is basically a publicity stunt to try to discredit and distract Ferrari! McLaren have used team orders as much as Ferrari over the past seven years since the rule came into force. The timing of this news article was timed to coincide with Ferrari's home Grand Prix and the World Motorsport Council hearing about team orders, I would bet it was written before the hearing for release once the inevitable happened; e.g. Ferrari receiving no further punishment!

Uh-huh. And the government put chloride in the water to control our minds too.

If [driver A] is 50 points ahead of [driver B] with three races [possible 75pts] remaining, do you seriously think that Martin Whitmarsh will allow his drivers go head to head when realistically only one driver has a chance of winning the title? and it's only $100,000 to use team orders, cheap at double the price!

This newspaper column is simple McLaren spin; all teams use the press for their own devious needs!

[luciouslaurie]

the ban on team orders was put into the rules because barrichello was ordered to let schumacher pass when he was a good half lap ahead and schumacher only just caught him before they crossed the line now because it suits ferrari yet again to break a rule that they are responsible for being there in the first place they're making excuses again, i think that they should look again at WHY this rule is there and at WHAT caused the rule to be introduced in the first place but no its ferrari isnt it???? and more

[vaptin]

the ban on team orders was put into the rules because barrichello was ordered to let schumacher pass when he was a good half lap ahead and schumacher only just caught him before they crossed the line now because it suits ferrari yet again to break a rule that they are responsible for being there in the first place they're making excuses again, i think that they should look again at WHY this rule is there and at WHAT caused the rule to be introduced in the first place but no its ferrari isnt it???? and more

I don't understand why they put a new rule in place there, were Ferrari not charged under the old (then current) one? Basically, Ferrari broke the rule, got punished severely, it works. Why be so reactionary and pandering as to put in a new rule when the event everyone got up in arms about was dealt with under the current system?

[myownalias]

Let's keep this one McLaren related please; Ferrari already have a lengthy thread dedicated to discussion of the recent team orders scandal and the WMSC verdict!

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