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[Gilles 27]

I think Ferrari overvalue Massa, but then that's just me. Ferrari have never worked very hard to keep their drivers happy, with the exceptions of Schumacher and Massa. They will need to work to keep Alonso happy and if this means doing so to the detriment of Massa, I think they would be wise to.

Yup. They blew it with Kimi but Alonso blew it with McLaren so I think both parties (Alonso & Ferrari) will make this work.

I always felt that if Ferrari gave Kimi number one status in 2008, he would have been a lot more motivated. I know its poor of him to not give a sh*t once he'd won the title but i think he was genuinely expecting more from the team by way of thanks. I think if you are going to pay one driver far more than the other and that highly paid driver has just outclassed your other driver and won the WDC, it would make sense to make every effort to keep that first driver happy. Not least because the team stands to waste a lot of money, paying a driver who doesn't want to give his all. Massa is not WDC material, which he proved in 2008 when he had the fastest car and the full backing of the team.
I lay the blame for the McLaren-Alonso affair firmly at the door of Ron Dennis so I don't have any concerns over Alonso's temperament and tbh I don't think Massa holds as much sway at Ferrari as he once did now that both Jean Todt and Michael Schumacher are elsewhere.

[Jamie]

I think Ferrari overvalue Massa, but then that's just me. Ferrari have never worked very hard to keep their drivers happy, with the exceptions of Schumacher and Massa. They will need to work to keep Alonso happy and if this means doing so to the detriment of Massa, I think they would be wise to.

Yup. They blew it with Kimi but Alonso blew it with McLaren so I think both parties (Alonso & Ferrari) will make this work.

I always felt that if Ferrari gave Kimi number one status in 2008, he would have been a lot more motivated. I know its poor of him to not give a sh*t once he'd won the title but i think he was genuinely expecting more from the team by way of thanks. I think if you are going to pay one driver far more than the other and that highly paid driver has just outclassed your other driver and won the WDC, it would make sense to make every effort to keep that first driver happy. Not least because the team stands to waste a lot of money, paying a driver who doesn't want to give his all. Massa is not WDC material, which he proved in 2008 when he had the fastest car and the full backing of the team.
I lay the blame for the McLaren-Alonso affair firmly at the door of Ron Dennis so I don't have any concerns over Alonso's temperament and tbh I don't think Massa holds as much sway at Ferrari as he once did now that both Jean Todt and Michael Schumacher are elsewhere.

Massa is WDC material. He is pretty awesome

[Gilles 27]

I think Ferrari overvalue Massa, but then that's just me. Ferrari have never worked very hard to keep their drivers happy, with the exceptions of Schumacher and Massa. They will need to work to keep Alonso happy and if this means doing so to the detriment of Massa, I think they would be wise to.

Yup. They blew it with Kimi but Alonso blew it with McLaren so I think both parties (Alonso & Ferrari) will make this work.

I always felt that if Ferrari gave Kimi number one status in 2008, he would have been a lot more motivated. I know its poor of him to not give a sh*t once he'd won the title but i think he was genuinely expecting more from the team by way of thanks. I think if you are going to pay one driver far more than the other and that highly paid driver has just outclassed your other driver and won the WDC, it would make sense to make every effort to keep that first driver happy. Not least because the team stands to waste a lot of money, paying a driver who doesn't want to give his all. Massa is not WDC material, which he proved in 2008 when he had the fastest car and the full backing of the team.
I lay the blame for the McLaren-Alonso affair firmly at the door of Ron Dennis so I don't have any concerns over Alonso's temperament and tbh I don't think Massa holds as much sway at Ferrari as he once did now that both Jean Todt and Michael Schumacher are elsewhere.

Massa is WDC material. He is pretty awesome

Oh sorry! I thought he wasn't WDC material. I thought he might actually be slightly disappointing but as it turns out, he is in fact 'pretty awesome', which of course changes everything. I had no idea you had such a firm and irrefutable basis for your opinion. I stand corrected.

[Jamie]

Well he brought it to Lewis with a vengence and also so closely won it? I doubt he will never win 1! This year you have to wait and see

But i truly believe he is an inspiration

[racechick]

I think Ferrari overvalue Massa, but then that's just me. Ferrari have never worked very hard to keep their drivers happy, with the exceptions of Schumacher and Massa. They will need to work to keep Alonso happy and if this means doing so to the detriment of Massa, I think they would be wise to.

Drivers get paid to drive fantastic cars not to be kept happy, theyre not babies......oh hang on, yes some of them are
Kimi was not happy at McLaren, then at Ferrari. Alonso was not happy at Renault, then McLaren, then renault. Theres a pattern here, you cant blame the teams. Massa has been loyal and outdriven great team mates, Ferrari would be foolish to 'keep Alonso happy' (and we know what that means) at Massa's expense.

Alonso loved racing for Renault, he always did but you can't be happy though if your racing better than everyone else on the grid and only scoring 1 or 2 points here and there.

Two world championships actually And still he mouthed off about not getting enough "support"

[f1ea]

Two world championships actually And still he mouthed off about not getting enough "support"

Support... as in, a team that is actually trying to have a championship winning car. I'm sure there's a lot of moves the 'indoor' people at Renault knew they were doing wrong, or at least not in the direction of 'having the best car on the grid'... would that be "support"?

I always felt that if Ferrari gave Kimi number one status in 2008, he would have been a lot more motivated. I know its poor of him to not give a sh*t once he'd won the title but i think he was genuinely expecting more from the team by way of thanks. I think if you are going to pay one driver far more than the other and that highly paid driver has just outclassed your other driver and won the WDC, it would make sense to make every effort to keep that first driver happy. Not least because the team stands to waste a lot of money, paying a driver who doesn't want to give his all. Massa is not WDC material, which he proved in 2008 when he had the fastest car and the full backing of the team.
I lay the blame for the McLaren-Alonso affair firmly at the door of Ron Dennis so I don't have any concerns over Alonso's temperament and tbh I don't think Massa holds as much sway at Ferrari as he once did now that both Jean Todt and Michael Schumacher are elsewhere.

Massa never had full team backing. Kimi was always #1 in Ferrari while he was there. In fact, he never really fought for the Massa title bid until he was completely out of the equaion. I dont blame him (Kimi), but that doesn't mean Massa was not WDC class. Massa helped Kimi get his title when they didn't have the best car... and if your going to say he's not WDC material, then in 2009 he surely was WDC material and would have won it had the 'team' not let him down. DESPITE not having the best car.

Meaning... Massa gets more support because when he had to, he helped his team, and when his teammate struggled and the car had serious working around issues, he delivered and worked around them.

The problem with Kimi apparently lies in that he just sat and waited for Ferrari to give him 'the best car' and did nothing but drive it. While Massa and Schumacher and so on... are willing to put up the sweat until their car is winning the races.

Kimi is still a better driver than Massa. But without the effort guys like Massa give, there's no way you're going to win the WDC with such strong competition no matter how talented you are.

EDIT: Oooooops. I meant 2008

[Hexagram]

Two world championships actually And still he mouthed off about not getting enough "support"

I think racechick is referring to her deep dark past when she use to follow Renault & Alonso in 2005 - 2006.

If I recall correctly Alonso accused Renault of not supporting him enough when Michael was catching him in the drivers championship after Renault had their mass damper banned and Renault were not bringing any updates to their car.

[headless]

Two world championships actually And still he mouthed off about not getting enough "support"

I think racechick is referring to her deep dark past when she use to follow Renault & Alonso in 2005 - 2006.

If I recall correctly Alonso accused Renault of not supporting him enough when Michael was catching him in the drivers championship after Renault had their mass damper banned and Renault were not bringing any updates to their car.

Yeah and when he got penilised, he said he didn't think F1 was a sport anymore.
But when he returned to Renault, he said he had come home.

[Hexagram]

Two world championships actually And still he mouthed off about not getting enough "support"

I think racechick is referring to her deep dark past when she use to follow Renault & Alonso in 2005 - 2006.

If I recall correctly Alonso accused Renault of not supporting him enough when Michael was catching him in the drivers championship after Renault had their mass damper banned and Renault were not bringing any updates to their car.

Yeah and when he got penilised, he said he didn't think F1 was a sport anymore.
But when he returned to Renault, he said he had come home.

That was a Massa incident too.

Italy 2006 if I recall correctly.

[headless]

Two world championships actually And still he mouthed off about not getting enough "support"

I think racechick is referring to her deep dark past when she use to follow Renault & Alonso in 2005 - 2006.

If I recall correctly Alonso accused Renault of not supporting him enough when Michael was catching him in the drivers championship after Renault had their mass damper banned and Renault were not bringing any updates to their car.

Yeah and when he got penilised, he said he didn't think F1 was a sport anymore.
But when he returned to Renault, he said he had come home.

That was a Massa incident too.

Italy 2006 if I recall correctly.

I beleive so.
Ah, the memories

[Jamie]

Two world championships actually And still he mouthed off about not getting enough "support"

Support... as in, a team that is actually trying to have a championship winning car. I'm sure there's a lot of moves the 'indoor' people at Renault knew they were doing wrong, or at least not in the direction of 'having the best car on the grid'... would that be "support"?

I always felt that if Ferrari gave Kimi number one status in 2008, he would have been a lot more motivated. I know its poor of him to not give a sh*t once he'd won the title but i think he was genuinely expecting more from the team by way of thanks. I think if you are going to pay one driver far more than the other and that highly paid driver has just outclassed your other driver and won the WDC, it would make sense to make every effort to keep that first driver happy. Not least because the team stands to waste a lot of money, paying a driver who doesn't want to give his all. Massa is not WDC material, which he proved in 2008 when he had the fastest car and the full backing of the team.
I lay the blame for the McLaren-Alonso affair firmly at the door of Ron Dennis so I don't have any concerns over Alonso's temperament and tbh I don't think Massa holds as much sway at Ferrari as he once did now that both Jean Todt and Michael Schumacher are elsewhere.

Massa never had full team backing. Kimi was always #1 in Ferrari while he was there. In fact, he never really fought for the Massa title bid until he was completely out of the equaion. I dont blame him (Kimi), but that doesn't mean Massa was not WDC class. Massa helped Kimi get his title when they didn't have the best car... and if your going to say he's not WDC material, then in 2009 he surely was WDC material and would have won it had the 'team' not let him down. DESPITE not having the best car.

Meaning... Massa gets more support because when he had to, he helped his team, and when his teammate struggled and the car had serious working around issues, he delivered and worked around them.

The problem with Kimi apparently lies in that he just sat and waited for Ferrari to give him 'the best car' and did nothing but drive it. While Massa and Schumacher and so on... are willing to put up the sweat until their car is winning the races.

Kimi is still a better driver than Massa. But without the effort guys like Massa give, there's no way you're going to win the WDC with such strong competition no matter how talented you are.

Strong + good points.

[darwin dali]

Two world championships actually And still he mouthed off about not getting enough "support"

I think racechick is referring to her deep dark past when she use to follow Renault & Alonso in 2005 - 2006.

If I recall correctly Alonso accused Renault of not supporting him enough when Michael was catching him in the drivers championship after Renault had their mass damper banned and Renault were not bringing any updates to their car.

Yeah and when he got penilised, he said he didn't think F1 was a sport anymore.
But when he returned to Renault, he said he had come home.

That was a Massa incident too.

Italy 2006 if I recall correctly.

I beleive so.
Ah, the memories

You guys crack me up - so cruel

[headless]

Thread killer.

[f1ea]

[racechick]

Two world championships actually And still he mouthed off about not getting enough "support"

I think racechick is referring to her deep dark past when she use to follow Renault & Alonso in 2005 - 2006.

If I recall correctly Alonso accused Renault of not supporting him enough when Michael was catching him in the drivers championship after Renault had their mass damper banned and Renault were not bringing any updates to their car.

Spot on Hexy (such a deep dark past )