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[EwanM]

one way to get more cars on the grid if Honda officially announces they will pull out will be to allow teams to have 3 cars instead of 2. The 3rd car allowing additional sponsors to help fund running costs kinda like the Americans.



Honda, ever thought of the sponsors?

For 2 years they ran generally self sufficent it seems. I know they had backers, but they weren't visible.
That the big concern though. If teams did run a 3rd car, it would be hard to find any additional sponsors during this economic climate - let alone anyone who wants to buy Honda. Then they'd surely have to widen the points scoring to stop one or 2 teams taking all of the points every race.

[Stealthgate007]

I honestly wasnt expecting this...at all. I mean it just doesnt make any sense because they were testing their '09 car so why would they just leave? This is a real sad day for F1.

This is very true. All that promise of 09 and how they would be the furthest ahead with KERS. All that talk of signing Alonso on a massive deal, or Brawn's revolution. All wasted. I hope someone step in, they could potentially have a very efficent outfit for next year on their hands.

They also just opened a new gym facility on their grounds... Like everyone eluded to money spent, Brawn, KERS, 2009 packet, testing young drivers, it appears this came out of nowhere (or not out of the racing division). Some corporate head, very high up, said shut it down.. and overnight they cancelled the Xmas party the press luncheon and everything.

Toyota would be next one to fall in my opinion, as being a manufacturer that has been hit hard, their responsibility is focused on selling cars and trimming the fat.

I'm not sure if the luxury cars have that problem to that extent.

[Rivelution]

I honestly wasnt expecting this...at all. I mean it just doesnt make any sense because they were testing their '09 car so why would they just leave? This is a real sad day for F1.

This is very true. All that promise of 09 and how they would be the furthest ahead with KERS. All that talk of signing Alonso on a massive deal, or Brawn's revolution. All wasted. I hope someone step in, they could potentially have a very efficent outfit for next year on their hands.

No kidding dude, I'm seriously surprised. They should've atleast raced in one race before calling it quits

[EwanM]

Well it's official...

Honda to pull out of Formula One

Takeo Fukui made an emotional announcement
Honda is pulling out of Formula One, blaming the world economic crisis for plans to sell its team, which costs £200m a year to run.

Sources told BBC Sport the team were "optimistic" they would continue, but an investor had not yet been found.

A deadline of January has been set to find a buyer but workers at the UK Brackley base have been told to expect redundancy letters before Christmas.

In addition, Honda said it would no longer supply Formula One with engines.

"Honda Motor Co. has come to the conclusion that we will withdraw from all Formula One activities, making 2008 the last season for participation," said Honda president Takeo Fukui at an emotional press conference.

"This difficult decision has been made in light of the quickly deteriorating operating environment facing the global auto industry... and the sudden contraction of the world economies," he added.
Honda were the lowest-placed of the points-scoring teams in 2008

According to the Reuters news agency, team bosses Ross Brawn and Nick Fry told a meeting of the Formula One Teams' Association: "They have a month to find a buyer, otherwise they are closing the team."

Honda appointed Brawn, the man who masterminded seven world titles for Michael Schumacher, as their team principal prior to the start of the 2008 season.

Briton Jenson Button, who drives for the Honda team, will be left unattached for the 2009 season, though some places with mid-ranking teams remain.

Honda recently cut road vehicle production as a response to the global economic crisis.

A notoriously expensive sport in which to compete, F1 teams have spent recent months in intensive discussions over cost-cutting measures.


Max Mosley, president of world motorsport governing body the FIA, recently urged teams to find ways to reduce costs.
"Formula One is becoming unsustainable," said Mosley in July.

"The major manufacturers are currently employing up to 1,000 people to put two cars on the grid. This is clearly unacceptable at a time when all these companies are facing tough market conditions."

In October, a deal was reached to reduce costs for smaller teams in 2009 and 2010.

Considered a major player within Formula One, Honda bankrolls more than 800 staff at the team's Northamptonshire base and had the largest budget in the sport.

"I am told that for £1 you can now buy the Honda F1 team," said BBC sports news correspondent Adam Parsons.

BBC Radio 5 Live's F1 commentator, David Croft, said Honda's withdrawal could have profound consequences for the sport.

HONDA IN F1

Honda team created in 2006 after BAR team was taken over
Finished fourth in 2006 constructors' championship with 86 points, but struggled to eighth in 2007 (six points) and ninth in 2008 (14 points)
Team costs Honda £200m annually with more than 800 staff at Brackley
Honda runs F1 cars with minimal advertising, meaning more funding has to come from Japanese parent company
British driver Jenson Button (above) would lose his place in the sport if the team were to fold
"This has serious implications for F1, not just because there will be only 18 cars on the grid," said Croft.

"It's the start of the sport as a whole feeling the pinch. Williams are reported to be in financial difficulties, Toyota are trimming down their budget as well.

"Honda are a car company whose sales have dropped by 41% in the last quarter, they're closing their Swindon factory for two months at the start of next year, and obviously feeling the pinch on a global scale."

In November, Honda announced it would build fewer cars in Japan, Europe and the United States to reflect bleak economic prospects in the vehicle manufacturing industry.

Sales of new cars in the UK suffered their biggest monthly drop in 28 years, while carmakers Ford, GM and Chrysler have asked the US Congress for multi-billion dollar loans to guarantee their survival.

The last team to leave Formula One were Honda-backed minnows Super Aguri, which folded for financial reasons in April.

Honda's own F1 team endured a deeply disappointing 2008 season on the track, earning just 14 points, leaving them the lowest of the nine points-scoring teams.

Button found himself ranked 18th in the drivers' list, contributing only three points.

Only four drivers, each without a point to their name, ranked below him. Team-mate Rubens Barrichello earned the remaining 11 points.

Honda initially entered F1 as a constructor in the 1960s, withdrawing at the end of 1968.

The company returned to F1 in the 1980s as an engine supplier and then purchased a stake in the BAR team from British American Tobacco (BAT) in 2004.

Honda bought out BAT in 2005 to form the Honda team for the 2006 season.

While the team finished fourth in the 2006 constructors' championship, they have subsequently struggled to make an impact.

The 2009 Formula One season begins on 29 March, in Australia

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 766092.stm

[EwanM]

Thats a double hit with Honda announcing they won't even supply engines.

[bud]

s***

[EwanM]

Here's more of the statement:

Honda confirms immediate F1 pull out

By Jonathan Noble Friday, December 5th 2008, 05:13 GMT


Honda have announced their immediate withdrawal from Formula One, the Japanese manufacturer's president and CEO Takeo Fukui confirmed on Friday morning.

After a night of frenzied speculation about the future of the Honda Racing team, Fukui told a hastily called press conference in Tokyo that difficult financial conditions had forced the company to make the decision.

"Honda must protect its core business activities and secure the long term as widespread uncertainties in the economies around the globe continue to mount," he said. "A recovery is expected to take some time.

"Under these circumstances, Honda has taken swift and flexible measures to counter this sudden and expansive weakening of the marketplace in all business areas. However, in recognition of the need to optimize the allocation of management resources, including investment regarding the future, we have decided to withdraw from Formula One participation.

“We will enter into consultation with the associates of Honda Racing F1 Team and its engine supplier Honda Racing Development regarding the future of the two companies. This will include offering the team for sale."

Autosport.com understands that Honda Racing team principal Ross Brawn and CEO Nick Fry are due to fly to Tokyo on Monday for talks with the Japanese chiefs about the future.

Sources suggest that Honda chiefs have been told that the team will be funded only until March - giving them three months to find a new buyer before they are shut down.

It is understood staff have been told that potential buyers have already been lined up, with Brawn already focused on securing an engine supply deal with Ferrari to try and keep the team in F1.

Fukui admitted that the withdrawal decision had been a hard one to take - especially as Honda had taken a victory as a car maker in 2006 and had already invested a huge amount of money in bidding to return to the top under the leadership of Brawn.

He added: “In its third era of Formula One activities, Honda has been participating in Formula One races from the 2000 season, initially with BAR, by adopting a new format of jointly developing racing machines. Subsequently, in a move to meet the changing environment surrounding Formula One, we switched to running a 100% Honda-owned team commencing with the 2006 season.

“Surmounting many challenges, the Honda Team achieved a grand prix victory in 2006, enabling Honda to receive overwhelming support from Honda fans around the world that were looking forward to greater success.

“It, therefore, has been an extremely difficult decision for us to come to this conclusion without having been able to fully meet the expectations of our fans.

“By making the best of what we have learned during these times of economic turmoil, coupled with the spirit of challenge gained through active participation in racing, we intend to continue with our commitment in meeting new challenges.

“Finally, we would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank our fans and all those who have supported Honda's Formula One efforts, including everyone in the world of Formula One."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72322

[la-ultima-curva]

this is terrible news, but in light of the automotive crisis world wide it was not totally unexpected.
with american and japanese car manufacturers having sales slump from 20-40%, a high cost sport like f1 has to be unsustainable...

looks like a single engine will have to be brought in to save the smaller budgeted teams.

sad day for f1 and motor sport.

[Hanwombat]

well this sucks

[f1maniac95]

A sad day for Formula One and motorsport. Something needs to be done NOW! to cut costs in F1 otherwise not before long Williams and Toyota will go as well. A agree with that classes ideas so the new, smaller teams can get into F1 and as they develop they could eventually start racing in the big class.

[Rick_1138]

Ah well, thats me not caring about thsi sport anymore, as soon as i read Brawn may want to source Ferrari engines to run the team if they get backing, whats the point.

I as in this as i wanted to see Honda start to improve, now its all been for nothing. Ferrari are the only team that are viable now in F1, as i can see Toyota and Williams looking to pair down in the next year, and may even pull out if the downturn continues.

Standardised engines for the smaller teams will only mean Mclaren and Ferrari will be competetive as they will be able to make more specialised\tailored engines and Mclaren don't have as much cash as Ferrari either.

I can see 2010 being the Ferrari World Championship and then here will be no point watching ( i would say the same if it was reversed and Mclaren or even honda was the biggest team a one make o ver all series is always going to be boring)

A sad day for the sport, after all of the build up to 09 saying that we did nothing in 008 to ensure our 09 car would be great was a big waste of time.

To be fair though it was Honda's fault, running a non sponsored car was a stupid decision, and the earth dreams idea was just terrible (i said that when i first saw it), the BAR team did well, and Honda with a good sponsor could have done a lot better with more money.

This has basically been Honda top brass going, this is costing us a fortune and we aren't winning, shut it down!

Honda hate to lose, but it seems just walking away is a fair alternative now

[SENNA71]

I wonder which OTHER construtors will follow , in light of the present world crisis....

[FerrariFan63]

The manufacturer era of Formula 1 may be starting to end. Unless these teams get costs down they will seriously not survive. Im not for Standardisation in Formula one, but news like this makes you think that Max's main aim to cut cost considerably is the right one. Teams have been too stubborn towards the FIA and Vias versa. It's time the teams get a greater share in the sports profits, its time that the smaller teams are saved and that Customer cars *gulp* are approved with maybe one or two limitations placed upon them?

Seriously people need to just accept change even if its for the worse in terms of the competition of the sport.

I mean what do we want: A sport or no sport?

If Honda decide to withdraw Toyota will easily follow, and most of the other manufacturers will surely be looking at themselves to see if it is financially viable to continue.

Formula One is riddled with financial crisis. We've already discussed at length the problems Hockenheim and the French Grand Prix has faced in trying to find the money to hold a race. It was always bordering that a team would go, but I suspected Torro Rosso, especially when Red Bull bought Berger out again - it all seemed like they were preparing to sell.
That may still happen, but I did not expect Honda of all teams to exit F1. This is a sad day, and there isn't any realistic manufacturers of privateers who will have the capital to come in and run this team, or create any other teams for that matter. Why have the likes of Audi - power houses in other forms of motorsport - kept away from F1? Because it reeks, and the changes for 2009 should have been enacted much earlier and should have been only the start of more.

People may claim prodrive of stoddart or even someone like Eddie Jordan could come in and take on a team, but there is surely no way they would be able to raise enough money and find the right backing from Engine suppliers to succeed?

I feel sorry for Button and Barrichello if this news is confirmed tommrow. And I feel sorry for all those employees who are set to be made redundant.
But I feel more sorry for all of us, we've lost a legendary marque in terms of F1 success... How many more are we going to lose before F1 sorts itself out?

I agree completely with everything you say. When I said some months ago that there might be a choice between a significantly less technological F1 or no F1 at all, there was a knee-jerk reaction from many people about the "purity" of F1. Honda withdrawing might be the first of many manufacturer withdrawls, as Mad Max himself just said on the radio. As I said back then in previous discussions, the choice may not be between current F1 and a watered down F1, it may be between a watered down F1 and no F1 at all.

There may be an environment for "garagistas" to move back in. But it would take all the top line teams withdrawing or significantly scaling down their participation for it to be worth their while. Clearly Max would have to backtrack on the large deposits needed to join F1. But the chance of all the top teams withdrawing is IMHO small. So you'd get a situation like Le Mans where Audi just completely dominates against comparative amateurs. So F1 would then have to force the few remaining manufacturers to scale back their involvement. Which is where we came in.

In some ways it might be better if F1 dies completely. Then TV coverage and public opinion would focus on a smaller series. Could be anything, but imagine that British F3 takes off as a public sport. The amount of money flowing into that sport due to increased TV coverage might actually make it better funded than before.

I think the error that many people on this forum make is to assume that because Max is an utter moron, that everything he says is wrong. Even if he's going about it entirely the wrong way, vastly reducing costs in F1 is going to be vital for the sport's survival.

[KyrosV]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The End of F1 is near

[FerrariFan63]

Ah well, thats me not caring about thsi sport anymore, as soon as i read Brawn may want to source Ferrari engines to run the team if they get backing, whats the point.

I as in this as i wanted to see Honda start to improve, now its all been for nothing. Ferrari are the only team that are viable now in F1, as i can see Toyota and Williams looking to pair down in the next year, and may even pull out if the downturn continues.

Standardised engines for the smaller teams will only mean Mclaren and Ferrari will be competetive as they will be able to make more specialised\tailored engines and Mclaren don't have as much cash as Ferrari either.

I can see 2010 being the Ferrari World Championship and then here will be no point watching ( i would say the same if it was reversed and Mclaren or even honda was the biggest team a one make o ver all series is always going to be boring)

A sad day for the sport, after all of the build up to 09 saying that we did nothing in 008 to ensure our 09 car would be great was a big waste of time.

To be fair though it was Honda's fault, running a non sponsored car was a stupid decision, and the earth dreams idea was just terrible (i said that when i first saw it), the BAR team did well, and Honda with a good sponsor could have done a lot better with more money.

This has basically been Honda top brass going, this is costing us a fortune and we aren't winning, shut it down!

Honda hate to lose, but it seems just walking away is a fair alternative now

Ah, the oft-rumoured complete Ferrari take-over of the sport.

Even I wouldn't want to see that happen. No fun seeing a Ferrari victory with no credible opposition.

But I doubt that Ferrari will be in the best financial position of any of the teams in the near future. Ferrari cars are luxuries, and luxuries, even for the rich, are one of the first markets to feel the crunch. Also, a lot of Ferrari sponsorship money comes from Marlboro. Will this sponsorship survive a downturn? How long is the contract for? Marlboro are selling on the advertising space on the car, but what if they can't sell for the money they're contracted to give Ferrari. Hmmm.... Is this agreement still in place?