FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Mikep99]

Having watched it again, I think there's a crucial piece of the jigsaw we're missing. There's a Q&A with Lewis on the Autosport website where he says

We went out, we came in I was weighed before I'd even finished a lap and I lost a little bit of time there when the track was a little bit drier.

So it seems that Hamilton was called in to be weighed when he came in from his out/in-lap. I can't verify this because none of the stewards' reports are up yet (and I know for a fact that Alonso was weighed because you could see it on the TV), and before anyone starts I don't think it was part of any conspiracy (if Hamilton had been out on extreme wets from the start he couldn't have been called in then), but it did compound the error that had already been made by taking away track time when the track was at it's fastest. Virtually everyone's best laps were set shortly after this point - Raikkonen's mistake was what cost him - but at this stage Hamilton was on his out-lap, with 2 or 3 laps less experience of those conditions.

I'm not trying to defend him though, it was a total mess but I think it's an important piece of extra information.

Sounds like it could have contributed to it.
That whole Q3 was a strange one, but only spices the race up more

[AKR]

First, I can see why Hamilton and his race engineer, Phil Prew, would have considered using intermediate tyres. The track had dried up slightly at the end of the first qualifying session, but even then, most drivers were still not confident to use intermediate tyres. But why the hell did you not look at the weather radar? The dogs on the streets new it was about to pour down from the heavens! Intermediate tyres were, therefore, useless. On top of this, it was only the second qualifying session, so there was no need to take any risks whatsoever. All that was needed was a decent time to get the team into the pole position shoot-out.

What another waste of an opportunity. Ferrari were struggling in the rain, particularly Raikkonen, so it was another good chance for Hamilton to put himself in a good position to extent his championship lead and for McLaren to take another bite out of Ferrari's constructors' title lead. Do McLaren want to win anything this season? With Kovalainen's poor performance all season long and Hamilton's poor pace and subsequent chicken-up this race, we may as well give Ferrari and Massa the titles.

This is not good enough. We are McLaren. We have the best facilities in Formula One. We exist to win. We are not country bumpkins. Sort it out.

First off if Heikki can win great, don't really care as long as Massa finishes higher than Lewis Hamilton and gets points. Second if Lewis Hamilton can screw up and not finish or get points better still. Thirdly with a bit of luck, Kimi can start playing his role and just hold up Lewis Hamilton for as long as he can.

Note to that last point you made about McLaren. It should read. We are McLaren. We have the second best facilities in Formula One. We exist to come second. We are country bumpkins. No sorting out required.

Ferrari's facilities kick arse over anything McLaren has. We are Ferrari the greatest team of all. We exist to win and Formula 1 exists because of us. Fact.

this is what i always talk about Kiki

dont worry Chris gambles sometimes dont pay off, you can go from hero to zero depending on the outcome! but i agree the risk was not needed especially in Q2.
Hopefully Heikki can get the win and Lewis can do some recovery work

McLaren
Heikki Kovalainen: A really close session; I missed pole by just .076 seconds. My first attempt in Q3 wasn't perfect and further rain later in the session made it almost impossible to improve. On my final run, I gave it everything but there wasn't enough grip to beat Sebastian Vettel. But congratulations to him on his first pole. Nevertheless, second on the grid is still a good basis for tomorrow; our car has shown good pace in both the wet and the dry so I'm feeling confident."

Lewis Hamilton: It was a joint decision to go out on wet-weather tyres at the start of Q2 - partly mine and partly my engineers'. We thought it was the right way to go at the time because it was getting dryer but the grip-level was poor so I came in and switched to extremes. By the time I got out, it had begun to rain and I just missed the window when the track was at its fastest; it was also very hard to pick out the braking points. It's the first time this has happened to me in Formula 1, so I can't really complain - tomorrow's another day and we still have a fighting chance to make our way up the grid. I'll be doing the best job I can."

akr shut up with the cheating BS would ya

I'll shutup about the cheating reality that did really happen as the whole world knows when you shut up with your McLaren is like God crap ok.

This looks like it will be race of luck. Wil be good to see one of the other teams win like STR or Williams but I hope that luck helps Ferrari and that Ferrari do better than McLaren and more notebably Massa much better than Lewis Hamilton.

[formula1fan1]

Looking at it another way, let's say McLaren's technical wizardry showed that there was a solid chance of a dry sunday. They hedged their bets - running one car with a wet weather setup (Kovi) and the other with a dry setup (Hamilton). They didn't want to show their hand, so they made it look like a mistake. Ferrari did the same thing, but they didn't need to play any games because they could hide behind Kimi's reputation as a bad qualifier anyway. Given that they chose Hamilton as the pilot to run dry, instead of kovi, I would argue that McLaren think there's greater than 50% chance that the race will be predominantly dry.

[Hanwombat]

This point in the season is where Mclaren usually start to unravel and things seem to click in place for Ferrari. It happened last year starting in Hungary and its start here at Monza. It was a schoolboy error by the boys in the team and what makes it worse is that it was completely avoidable. Well the hopes of the team rest with Heikki who quite is frankly useless

[8-ball]

This point in the season is where Mclaren usually start to unravel and things seem to click in place for Ferrari. It happened last year starting in Hungary and its start here at Monza. It was a schoolboy error by the boys in the team and what makes it worse is that it was completely avoidable. Well the hopes of the team rest with Heikki who quite is frankly useless

I don't mean to offend your man Han but he is not performing. That Mclaren should be getting regular podium finishes especially considering Kimi is all over the place. He needs to step up and support Lewis much better if Mclaren want to win anything this season

[Hanwombat]

Atleast he knows what a red light means unlike Lewis or or or oh I could go on for days with a list

Whoops hes in my team

[Denthúl]

First, I can see why Hamilton and his race engineer, Phil Prew, would have considered using intermediate tyres. The track had dried up slightly at the end of the first qualifying session, but even then, most drivers were still not confident to use intermediate tyres. But why the hell did you not look at the weather radar? The dogs on the streets new it was about to pour down from the heavens! Intermediate tyres were, therefore, useless. On top of this, it was only the second qualifying session, so there was no need to take any risks whatsoever. All that was needed was a decent time to get the team into the pole position shoot-out.

What another waste of an opportunity. Ferrari were struggling in the rain, particularly Raikkonen, so it was another good chance for Hamilton to put himself in a good position to extent his championship lead and for McLaren to take another bite out of Ferrari's constructors' title lead. Do McLaren want to win anything this season? With Kovalainen's poor performance all season long and Hamilton's poor pace and subsequent chicken-up this race, we may as well give Ferrari and Massa the titles.

This is not good enough. We are McLaren. We have the best facilities in Formula One. We exist to win. We are not country bumpkins. Sort it out.

No team or driver is infallible.

[racechick]

Having watched it again, I think there's a crucial piece of the jigsaw we're missing. There's a Q&A with Lewis on the Autosport website where he says

We went out, we came in I was weighed before I'd even finished a lap and I lost a little bit of time there when the track was a little bit drier.

So it seems that Hamilton was called in to be weighed when he came in from his out/in-lap. I can't verify this because none of the stewards' reports are up yet (and I know for a fact that Alonso was weighed because you could see it on the TV), and before anyone starts I don't think it was part of any conspiracy (if Hamilton had been out on extreme wets from the start he couldn't have been called in then), but it did compound the error that had already been made by taking away track time when the track was at it's fastest. Virtually everyone's best laps were set shortly after this point - Raikkonen's mistake was what cost him - but at this stage Hamilton was on his out-lap, with 2 or 3 laps less experience of those conditions.

I'm not trying to defend him though, it was a total mess but I think it's an important piece of extra information.

Yes I heard this. And I think the reason he couldnt then post a faster lap whilst Massa could is because he missed the time whn the track was faster to get his tyres up to temp whilst Masa had been out and got his working. Lewis also said he had a problem with the brakes, he couldnt get heat into them.
I know the problem was all initiated by the wrong tyre choice in the first place but it explains when on the right tyre and same lap as Massa why he could n't get the lap time.
What I now need to see is a Turkey GP2 2006 style run through the field. That would be mega. However methinks that Kimi with a newly signed ferrari contract in his pocket ..and just in front of Lewis....has a special job to do! It will be fun to watch anyway.

[McLaren Fan]

This point in the season is where Mclaren usually start to unravel and things seem to click in place for Ferrari. It happened last year starting in Hungary and its start here at Monza. It was a schoolboy error by the boys in the team and what makes it worse is that it was completely avoidable. Well the hopes of the team rest with Heikki who quite is frankly useless

Kovalainen should leave McLaren and the team should sue him under the trade descriptions act. I thought that McLaren employed a racing driver.

[bud]

This point in the season is where Mclaren usually start to unravel and things seem to click in place for Ferrari. It happened last year starting in Hungary and its start here at Monza. It was a schoolboy error by the boys in the team and what makes it worse is that it was completely avoidable. Well the hopes of the team rest with Heikki who quite is frankly useless

Kovalainen should leave McLaren and the team should sue him under the trade descriptions act. I thought that McLaren employed a racing driver.

[al4x]

This point in the season is where Mclaren usually start to unravel and things seem to click in place for Ferrari. It happened last year starting in Hungary and its start here at Monza. It was a schoolboy error by the boys in the team and what makes it worse is that it was completely avoidable. Well the hopes of the team rest with Heikki who quite is frankly useless

Kovalainen should leave McLaren and the team should sue him under the trade descriptions act. I thought that McLaren employed a racing driver.

these comments are a bit unfair imo

[Dutchcruijff]

To be fair he is 6 points behind Heidfeld in the BMW. Bear in mind, he was considered to be having a bad season even in the BMW. What does that equate for Heikki in the Mercedes then?

[bud]

To be fair he is 6 points behind Heidfeld in the BMW. Bear in mind, he was considered to be having a bad season even in the BMW. What does that equate for Heikki in the Mercedes then?

that they are both doing bad?

but you have to take into account the variables and not just the points scored thus far in determining a drivers performance this year!

Heikki has had a lot of steller races but none that are race winning( he won a race due to Massa's misfortune) and some where he had bad luck where podiums were in order!
i think he will work out his form once he gets comfortable with the team! plus with slicks next year is a new game for everyone and Heikki just might shine very bright, but i doubt brighter than Lewis.

[Hanwombat]

This point in the season is where Mclaren usually start to unravel and things seem to click in place for Ferrari. It happened last year starting in Hungary and its start here at Monza. It was a schoolboy error by the boys in the team and what makes it worse is that it was completely avoidable. Well the hopes of the team rest with Heikki who quite is frankly useless

Kovalainen should leave McLaren and the team should sue him under the trade descriptions act. I thought that McLaren employed a racing driver.

Firstly, cos I have been dying to let this out, STFU

Stop whinning, for christ's sake

[Hanwombat]

To be fair he is 6 points behind Heidfeld in the BMW. Bear in mind, he was considered to be having a bad season even in the BMW. What does that equate for Heikki in the Mercedes then?

that they are both doing bad?

but you have to take into account the variables and not just the points scored thus far in determining a drivers performance this year!

Heikki has had a lot of steller races but none that are race winning( he won a race due to Massa's misfortune) and some where he had bad luck where podiums were in order!
i think he will work out his form once he gets comfortable with the team! plus with slicks next year is a new game for everyone and Heikki just might shine very bright, but i doubt brighter than Lewis.

Atleast your a Mclaren fan Bud, who speaks true to words, instead of throwing their toys out of the pram

Heikki has terrible bad luck, for jesus give the guy a break, HE CAN DRIVE FUNNY ENOUGH!