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[Dardas]

I think lessons with Shumi are paying off right now. He is more confident then he was and that could be major factor. Still any accident/car failure can change everything

[45thronin]

He's won a race or two whilst not being on pole position. Stunning stuff. In terms of how he achieves his pole positions, he just runs lighter than most people, so pole position is not an indicator of how fast you are any more.

Id agree with that, but it has worked.
If Massa wins the title this year I think he deserves it. Ok people will argue Spa over and over again. But it is tiresome. The decision was an injustice, Hamilton should have won the race, but we can't be stuck in the past. Time to move on and fight again. Mclaren will lose this world championship if they don't keep positive.

Massa isn't the best of the bunch so to speak. But he has developed a very clever race craft. Maybe he isn't as fast as Kimi on a single lap, but Kimi usually sets fastest laps having driven around all day in the midfield, almost uncaring.
Now I would put Hamilton as a better driver than Massa, a better world champion - well that is questionable for this year.
Maybe without the rookie mistakes.

He maybe isn't the greatest in the wet, but the same can be said for many a driver. Heck even our current world champion isn't that hot in wet conditions either.

Well put EwmanM! Also I TOTALLY agree. I've had too many discussions about this with Hamilton haters, and it just gets old. The fact of the matter is, when it starts to rain, Kimi is like a deer in the headlights, the man just doesn't know what to do. I've said this dozens of times in the past. The quality of a great race car driver, is how good he is when the conditions change. How well can they adapt. Hamilton consistently amazes me with how well he can adapt. When it start to rain, people slam on the breaks and run for cover. Hamilton seems to do just the opposite. He has an uncanny instinct with his car and judging the weather, and he prevails. The fact of the matter is, even if he did let Kimi go for another 2 corners, Kimi still ended up spinning out and hitting the wall. And no body cut him off, he wasn't bumped, it was all his own doing. Period. So should Hamilton have won that race? Absolutely!

Massa and Hamilton are my favorites. I like Massa because he's shown such promise this year. I think Ferrari is off there rocker to even fathom backing Kimi. Is Kimi a great driver? Yes! But he's done. People hate hearing that, but I'm convinced, you are only as good as your competition. Your competition is what makes you a champion. It's what tests your resolve. And that's exactly what Hamilton has done, and consistently does. Up the stakes. When everyone else is complacent in line, Hamilton says, "Screw this!" and cuts around someone moving up two positions. Then everyone complains, "Wait! He can't do that, he cut me off, he hit my tire, he crossed the line!" ENOUGH already! It's racing people, RACING!!!!!! Not knitting!

The one thing I love about Massa this year, is he's been mirroring Hamilton's passion and commitment. Bravo Massa!!! Get out there baby and win some races! No more of the status quo! I say do what Hamilton is doing, and push the limit! Drive that car so you suck every ounce of energy from the engine! That's why I couldn't believe when Massa drove a few races ago, so damn well, that unfortunately he burned out his engine. Or at least, that's the theory. I can't remember the name of that race, but it was flawless. All that effort and his car chokes! I felt for the guy.

All in all, I like Massa. One thing for sure, when he's hot, NOBODY can catch him! And to do that in a car like that Ferrari, that's pretty darn amazing! I used to do a little open wheel racing. Nothing professional, but I can tell you, these cars are amazing! I can't even imagine how fast and agile that Ferrari is. But I do know, that not just anyone can drive a car like that Ferrari or Mercedes. It takes a special driver, to get into one of these rockets, strap up, and slam your foot down for 60 laps, in 120 degree weather, ... and WIN! That's amazing!

[scotty]

He's won a race or two whilst not being on pole position. Stunning stuff.

I hope you are being sarcastic, which i think you are. A quick check shows he has indeed only ever won from the front row, in what was the most well-suited car to whichever track and weather conditions there were. Even Ralf Schumacher could win in those situations...

The fact of the matter is, when it starts to rain, Kimi is like a deer in the headlights, the man just doesn't know what to do. I've said this dozens of times in the past. The quality of a great race car driver, is how good he is when the conditions change. How well can they adapt.

Eh? Go and watch the '05 Belgian GP, imo one of Raikkonen's best victories in wet/dry conditions.... in other words changable conditions.

[bud]

Eh? Go and watch the '05 Belgian GP, imo one of Raikkonen's best victories in wet/dry conditions.... in other words changable conditions.

didnt Montoya hand him that win?

[scotty]

Eh? Go and watch the '05 Belgian GP, imo one of Raikkonen's best victories in wet/dry conditions.... in other words changable conditions.

didnt Montoya hand him that win?

I don't think so, Montoya pitted then he set a lap 2s faster than anything else so far that race and gained the lead that way. He also did something that is just sheer genius earlier in the race - everyone pitted during an SC period after Fisi's crash, but the McLaren's were running together - so Kimi held everyone up knowing they couldn't overtake, giving him enough time to make a stop after Montoya and not queue behind him, which meant he didn't lose any track position! Awesome stuff!

[texasmr2]

Eh? Go and watch the '05 Belgian GP, imo one of Raikkonen's best victories in wet/dry conditions.... in other words changable conditions.

didnt Montoya hand him that win?

I don't think so, Montoya pitted then he set a lap 2s faster than anything else so far that race and gained the lead that way. He also did something that is just sheer genius earlier in the race - everyone pitted during an SC period after Fisi's crash, but the McLaren's were running together - so Kimi held everyone up knowing they couldn't overtake, giving him enough time to make a stop after Montoya and not queue behind him, which meant he didn't lose any track position! Awesome stuff!

As Emeril would say, BAM!!!

[bud]

Eh? Go and watch the '05 Belgian GP, imo one of Raikkonen's best victories in wet/dry conditions.... in other words changable conditions.

didnt Montoya hand him that win?

I don't think so, Montoya pitted then he set a lap 2s faster than anything else so far that race and gained the lead that way. He also did something that is just sheer genius earlier in the race - everyone pitted during an SC period after Fisi's crash, but the McLaren's were running together - so Kimi held everyone up knowing they couldn't overtake, giving him enough time to make a stop after Montoya and not queue behind him, which meant he didn't lose any track position! Awesome stuff!

it was orchestrated so Kimi would come out infront after the stops, rightly so Kimi was in the title fight!
but it was another race where Montoya stuffed up and couldnt take points away from Alonso

[texasmr2]

Oh my did I hear a reference to 'team orders' which is a no-no!

[bud]

Oh my did I hear a reference to 'team orders' which is a no-no!

same thing Massa did for Kimi last year in Japan


god what is it with some people and trying to understand the beef with team orders????
how many times does it need to be said?

you will find no one has a problem with it when its at the closing stages of the season its the team orders at race 1 that get alot of F1 fans riled up! this is what pissed people off about Team orders in the Schumi era!

[scotty]

Eh? Go and watch the '05 Belgian GP, imo one of Raikkonen's best victories in wet/dry conditions.... in other words changable conditions.

didnt Montoya hand him that win?

I don't think so, Montoya pitted then he set a lap 2s faster than anything else so far that race and gained the lead that way. He also did something that is just sheer genius earlier in the race - everyone pitted during an SC period after Fisi's crash, but the McLaren's were running together - so Kimi held everyone up knowing they couldn't overtake, giving him enough time to make a stop after Montoya and not queue behind him, which meant he didn't lose any track position! Awesome stuff!

it was orchestrated so Kimi would come out infront after the stops, rightly so Kimi was in the title fight!
but it was another race where Montoya stuffed up and couldnt take points away from Alonso

You reckon? I can certainly see evidence supporting why it may seem like that - although i think Raikkonen simply didn't want to take the risk on the track knowing he had a load of pace in his pocket (and knowing what Montoya is like) - hence the crushing lap times he set after Montoya's second stop. But yeah, pretty irrelevant seeing how Montoya crashed out under no pressure later on.

[texasmr2]

Oh my did I hear a reference to 'team orders' which is a no-no!

same thing Massa did for Kimi last year in Japan


god what is it with some people and trying to understand the beef with team orders????
how many times does it need to be said?

you will find no one has a problem with it when its at the closing stages of the season its the team orders at race 1 that get alot of F1 fans riled up! this is what pissed people off about Team orders in the Schumi era!

I personaly have no issue's with team order's, never have for 29yr's of following F1 and never will, it's only when they are deemed justifiable for some and inexcusable for other's, that is what get's my goat.

[bud]

again you missed the point of it being justifiable

do you not see a difference between team orders at race 1 compared to the latter stages in the season where one team mate has a chance at the title while the other doesnt?

[texasmr2]

again you missed the point of it being justifiable

do you not see a difference between team orders at race 1 compared to the latter stages in the season where one team mate has a chance at the title while the other doesnt?

But aren't team order's, no matter what stage the season is in, a no-no?
The Mclaren camp, I hope you recognize how I always say 'camp' and not 'lambs', is alway's defending the notion that they have NO team order's but now you seem to be justifying it's merit's strictly for the benefit of your team? I'm confused by your mentality regarding this subject but I will keep an open mind if offered a reasonable explanation.

[bud]

int worry Rex I know it's hard to understand if you must you can use the search function to research the matter not bothered explaining it all over again

[texasmr2]

int worry Rex I know it's hard to understand if you must you can use the search function to research the matter not bothered explaining it all over again

Thanks mate cause you know I'm just a dumb hick with no concept of reality, thank's for having my back, I luv you man!!