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[McLaren Fan]

on the friday he was pretty compettitve so it would seem silly to revert back to the old spec car...

Are you a Formula One engineer? Are you Kovalainen's race engineer? Do you actually know anything about Formula One?

Definition: An enhancement of an existing ABS system that prevents wheel spin while accelerating on wet or slick surfaces. It uses the same wheel speed sensors to monitor wheel speed during acceleration, but requires some additional control solenoids and a pump to apply braking pressure to control wheel spin. The traction control system brakes the drive wheel that's starting to spin to shift torque to the opposite drive wheel that still has traction. Most traction control systems only operate at speeds up to about 30 mph. Additional control strategies that some traction control systems use to limit wheel spin include reducing the throttle opening, upshifting the transmission, retarding spark timing and deactivating fuel injectors.

Seems like a traction control system by definition...

No, it doesn't. You clearly don't understand how McLaren's innovation works and what that definition is telling you.

There's no point in anybody trying to explain how McLaren's system is legal. They've demonstrated on here that they are nothing more than s***-stirrers with an anti-McLaren agenda. Anyway, Kyros, I hope you enjoy watching your soulless Renault thinking getting a point is like winning a Grand Prix whilst the historic McLaren are competing for championships. I hope Loosit Hahahamilton enjoys seeing Hamilton win a few championships.

sounds like your trying to s*** stir around here mate. Were all on this forum just to have a debate. but you and bud always have to get agressive and argumentative about it, putting everyone elses opinions down. Do YOU actually know the truth? seems with every reply you send theres a wiff of bull.

And Im sure watching the race was more pleasing to watch for a Renault fan (Piquet almost winning) than for a Mclaren Fan (rivals and team mate feebalishly moving out of the way of LH) must of been a bit embarasing really while some of us were disgusted by it expecting a proper race and a challenge for lewis..

You're the one stirring the s***, I'm afraid. A you've said yourself, you deliberately post bullpoo on here to wind up McLaren supporters and make libelous remarks about the team. You spend more time criticising McLaren than you do talking about your own team. You really are a hateful person.

[KyrosV]

on the friday he was pretty compettitve so it would seem silly to revert back to the old spec car...

Are you a Formula One engineer? Are you Kovalainen's race engineer? Do you actually know anything about Formula One?

Definition: An enhancement of an existing ABS system that prevents wheel spin while accelerating on wet or slick surfaces. It uses the same wheel speed sensors to monitor wheel speed during acceleration, but requires some additional control solenoids and a pump to apply braking pressure to control wheel spin. The traction control system brakes the drive wheel that's starting to spin to shift torque to the opposite drive wheel that still has traction. Most traction control systems only operate at speeds up to about 30 mph. Additional control strategies that some traction control systems use to limit wheel spin include reducing the throttle opening, upshifting the transmission, retarding spark timing and deactivating fuel injectors.

Seems like a traction control system by definition...

No, it doesn't. You clearly don't understand how McLaren's innovation works and what that definition is telling you.

There's no point in anybody trying to explain how McLaren's system is legal. They've demonstrated on here that they are nothing more than s***-stirrers with an anti-McLaren agenda. Anyway, Kyros, I hope you enjoy watching your soulless Renault thinking getting a point is like winning a Grand Prix whilst the historic McLaren are competing for championships. I hope Loosit Hahahamilton enjoys seeing Hamilton win a few championships.

sounds like your trying to s*** stir around here mate. Were all on this forum just to have a debate. but you and bud always have to get agressive and argumentative about it, putting everyone elses opinions down. Do YOU actually know the truth? seems with every reply you send theres a wiff of bull.

And Im sure watching the race was more pleasing to watch for a Renault fan (Piquet almost winning) than for a Mclaren Fan (rivals and team mate feebalishly moving out of the way of LH) must of been a bit embarasing really while some of us were disgusted by it expecting a proper race and a challenge for lewis..

You're the one stirring the s***, I'm afraid. A you've said yourself, you deliberately post bullpoo on here to wind up McLaren supporters and make libelous remarks about the team. You spend more time criticising McLaren than you do talking about your own team. You really are a hateful person.

what are you? 5? grow up dude and grow some balls

[texasmr2]

You're the one stirring the s***, I'm afraid. A you've said yourself, you deliberately post bullpoo on here to wind up McLaren supporters and make libelous remarks about the team. You spend more time criticising McLaren than you do talking about your own team. You really are a hateful person.

Sound's like you fell for the bait hook, line and sinker Chris . Honestly bro this is a general F1 discussion forum not the McLaren forum so get a grip ok? Are you just having a bad week, and I'm not patronizing you , but jeez give it a rest.

[McLaren Fan]

You're the one stirring the s***, I'm afraid. A you've said yourself, you deliberately post bullpoo on here to wind up McLaren supporters and make libelous remarks about the team. You spend more time criticising McLaren than you do talking about your own team. You really are a hateful person.

Sound's like you fell for the bait hook, line and sinker Chris . Honestly bro this is a general F1 discussion forum not the McLaren forum so get a grip ok? Are you just having a bad week, and I'm not patronizing you , but jeez give it a rest.

Oh, you're a joke at times Gregg. How about you telling the others to give their crap about McLaren a rest.

[texasmr2]

You're the one stirring the s***, I'm afraid. A you've said yourself, you deliberately post bullpoo on here to wind up McLaren supporters and make libelous remarks about the team. You spend more time criticising McLaren than you do talking about your own team. You really are a hateful person.

Sound's like you fell for the bait hook, line and sinker Chris . Honestly bro this is a general F1 discussion forum not the McLaren forum so get a grip ok? Are you just having a bad week, and I'm not patronizing you , but jeez give it a rest.

Oh, you're a joke at times Gregg. How about you telling the others to give their crap about McLaren a rest.

Your the one Chris who get's his panties in a wad when a member talk's negative about McLaren. If you cannot take constructive criticism about your team there is not much I can say other than stop logging in and find another forum to preach your voodoo on! If you dont like it here leave as I'm fed up with having to baby sit every thread that has a negative vibe or opinion about McLaren because the McLaren lamb's will start acting like they are in grade school and need to be sent to the 'time out' chair.

I dont care to hear a reply to my comment from you so either move on, which would be the mature thing to do, or just leave. Also dont give me crap like 'your a MOD is that anyway to act', you reap what you sow mate.

Anyway back to the topic at hand I would agree with racechick that McLaren's 'secret weapon' is Lewis.

EDIT:
I'm sorry to be so harsh Chris as you and I have never had this sort of confrontation. You left me no choice but to speak openly and without reserve and I'm NOT happy about it but I am speaking truelly.

[Denthúl]

It will probably end up being banned, just like the second brake pedal :/

[stonemonkey]

Did they (as in all/most teams) already have some way of adjusting that from the steering wheel anyway, if so what would be the problem of just re-locating the controls?

[texasmr2]

From the information I have read McLaren is not breaching or breaking any rule. The 'engine torque' paddle's are driver controlled not ecu controlled so I see it as a break through in that the driver has more control over the car than the ecu which get's us back to the driver being the main component and not the car as a 'whole', does that make sense?

[McLaren Fan]

If you cannot take constructive criticism about your team...

I'll take constructive criticism, not destructive mistruths.

If you dont like it here leave as I'm fed up with having to baby sit every thread that has a negative vibe or opinion...

You should not have become a moderator then.

If you dont like it here leave ...

I won't be forced out.

EDIT:
I'm sorry to be so harsh Chris as you and I have never had this sort of confrontation. You left me no choice but to speak openly and without reserve and I'm NOT happy about it but I am speaking truelly.

My patience with you is exhausted likewise.

It will probably end up being banned, just like the second brake pedal :/

And the mass damper, which is a shame, for they have all been innovative ideas. Surely, innovation is meant to be one of the things Formula One stands for? I'm not totally happy how the idea has been talked up as being key to McLaren's recent upturn in form. The idea has been on the car since the start of the season - when the car had pretty poor traction - so it shows McLaren have improved the MP4-23's mediocre traction in other ways.

[Rivelution]

on the friday he was pretty compettitve so it would seem silly to revert back to the old spec car...

Are you a Formula One engineer? Are you Kovalainen's race engineer? Do you actually know anything about Formula One?

Definition: An enhancement of an existing ABS system that prevents wheel spin while accelerating on wet or slick surfaces. It uses the same wheel speed sensors to monitor wheel speed during acceleration, but requires some additional control solenoids and a pump to apply braking pressure to control wheel spin. The traction control system brakes the drive wheel that's starting to spin to shift torque to the opposite drive wheel that still has traction. Most traction control systems only operate at speeds up to about 30 mph. Additional control strategies that some traction control systems use to limit wheel spin include reducing the throttle opening, upshifting the transmission, retarding spark timing and deactivating fuel injectors.

Seems like a traction control system by definition...

No, it doesn't. You clearly don't understand how McLaren's innovation works and what that definition is telling you.

There's no point in anybody trying to explain how McLaren's system is legal. They've demonstrated on here that they are nothing more than s***-stirrers with an anti-McLaren agenda. Anyway, Kyros, I hope you enjoy watching your soulless Renault thinking getting a point is like winning a Grand Prix whilst the historic McLaren are competing for championships. I hope Loosit Hahahamilton enjoys seeing Hamilton win a few championships.

sounds like your trying to s*** stir around here mate. Were all on this forum just to have a debate. but you and bud always have to get agressive and argumentative about it, putting everyone elses opinions down. Do YOU actually know the truth? seems with every reply you send theres a wiff of bull.

And Im sure watching the race was more pleasing to watch for a Renault fan (Piquet almost winning) than for a Mclaren Fan (rivals and team mate feebalishly moving out of the way of LH) must of been a bit embarasing really while some of us were disgusted by it expecting a proper race and a challenge for lewis..

You're the one stirring the s***, I'm afraid. A you've said yourself, you deliberately post bullpoo on here to wind up McLaren supporters and make libelous remarks about the team. You spend more time criticising McLaren than you do talking about your own team. You really are a hateful person.

what are you? 5? grow up dude and grow some balls

Are you kidding? Your posts always cause a stir because you always back them up with unreal facts.

[McLaren Fan]

From the information I have read McLaren is not breaching or breaking any rule. The 'engine torque' paddle's are driver controlled not ecu controlled so I see it as a break through in that the driver has more control over the car than the ecu which get's us back to the driver being the main component and not the car as a 'whole', does that make sense?

Yes and no, mod. It is true that the device is not ECU controlled and is legal, and that the driver adjusts the torque using the paddles, thus he is in complete control of the torque. But it also means that the driver, as a consequence of using the paddles, has to worry slightly less about controlling the car's traction with his right foot. No doubt an argument will rumble on for ages before it is banned. If it is not banned this season, it will probably be banned next season.

[texasmr2]

I'll take constructive criticism, not destructive mistruths.

Last time I checked though is it's only your, or the McLaren fan's, opinion?

You should not have become a moderator then.

I like how you deleted the 'McLaren' implication from my original statement trying to make me the bad guy . Try to imagine the disarray and bias we would have if you were a mod!

I won't be forced out.

Nobody is TRYING to force you out or want's you to leave mate I was just offering you another avenue. You have become so discouraged as of late that you have resorted to being disrespectful toward's other member's and basically just a pompous arse.

My patience with you is exhausted likewise.

Once again we have a situation where your only hearing what you want to hear and not truelly trying to understand WHAT I AM SAYING!!! I am by no mean's exhuasted with you or anyone else for that matter.

It will probably end up being banned, just like the second brake pedal :/

And the mass damper, which is a shame, for they have all been innovative ideas. Surely, innovation is meant to be one of the things Formula One stands for? I'm not totally happy how the idea has been talked up as being key to McLaren's recent upturn in form. The idea has been on the car since the start of the season - when the car had pretty poor traction - so it shows McLaren have improved the MP4-23's mediocre traction in other ways.[/quote]

You are correct your BANNED!!!!

[texasmr2]

From the information I have read McLaren is not breaching or breaking any rule. The 'engine torque' paddle's are driver controlled not ecu controlled so I see it as a break through in that the driver has more control over the car than the ecu which get's us back to the driver being the main component and not the car as a 'whole', does that make sense?

Yes and no, mod.

Is your little tantrum almost over so we can actually have a mature debate?

[Denthúl]

From the information I have read McLaren is not breaching or breaking any rule. The 'engine torque' paddle's are driver controlled not ecu controlled so I see it as a break through in that the driver has more control over the car than the ecu which get's us back to the driver being the main component and not the car as a 'whole', does that make sense?

Yes and no, mod. It is true that the device is not ECU controlled and is legal, and that the driver adjusts the torque using the paddles, thus he is in complete control of the torque. But it also means that the driver, as a consequence of using the paddles, has to worry slightly less about controlling the car's traction with his right foot. No doubt an argument will rumble on for ages before it is banned. If it is not banned this season, it will probably be banned next season.

I suppose it would depend on whether it is a completely variable control, just like the throttle, or if it has preset, incremental amounts . If they're preset, then it's on a similar level to traction control in the sense that the driver doesn't really have to modulate it to get the desired effect, the just hit it. If it's constantly variable, then it's like having to work the throttle twice to hit the right torque range as well as making sure they put the right amount of power down.

I'd be interested in seeing exactly how it works.

[stonemonkey]

It'll be incremental, can't imagine there'd be anything like a throttle control on the back of the steering wheel alongside the gear shifters, try holding that in position with one finger while changing gear and steering. Something else that I think, been quite a few times I've seen Massa or Kimi messing around with switches on the steering wheel and I imagine it's just part of those controls they've re-located to give easier access to to use more frequently.