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[Jabberwocky]

On Topic

I suppose that the corperate buisness model is not the way in F1, look at the Ford/Jag nightmare! Stewart was a race winning team after all

[AKR]

McLaren Fan wrote : Another anti-McLaren remark. What a surprise. Now the team we support is linked to our personalities. Rolling Eyes

That was NOT MEANT TO BE AN ANTI MCLREN REMARK! It was supposed to be a compliment to Bud so once again you have brought me down. Sorry I can't express myself properly in English. I would like to see how well you express your opinions and thoughts in a second language etc if you can speak another. And my original bringing McLaren into to this was because they along with Williams once used Honda engines and someone had to turn that against me as another Mclaren hating thing. I've got an idea, if you don't like what I have to say don't answer it, simple. And sorry if I worded that wrong and you get the wrong meaning.

[Stephen]

Can we now drop this argument and get back on-topic!

AKR please read your work before posting to ensure no one gets the wrong idea. If it really is necessary to criticise another team/driver, try to make the post constructive and based on hard facts.

Thank you!

[texasmr2]

Experience.

That's exactly it bro! I believe it was you are McLaren Fan who might has said "You cant just throw money at a problem and expect to fix it"?

Gregg

PS,
I leave for a day's racing and miss all the fun .

[Stephen]

Does anyone believe luck has a roll to play?

[texasmr2]

Does anyone believe luck has a roll to play?

Oh gawd yes and sorry I forgot to mention that factor.

[piledriver]

They don't cheat enough

[7UpJordan]

On Topic

I suppose that the corperate buisness model is not the way in F1, look at the Ford/Jag nightmare! Stewart was a race winning team after all

Well said, it wasn't just Johnny Herbert's win at the Nurburgring, throughout 1999 Stewart were a team on the up, Barrichello grabbed 3rd on the grid in Brazil and also pole position in France. Ford had increased its emphasis on the Ford engine in the Stewart car as well, but when Jaguar took over the team started heading backwards. If Sir Jackie had remained in charge and not sold out, could they have climbed further up the grid in 2000?

Just goes to show Ford had been doing a better job working on the engine whilst Sir Jackie's team built the car to put it in.

[nikon133]

Yes it did have everything to do with it. Stop making me look bad. MCLAREN-HONDA a successfull team of the late 80s early 90s. HONDA the Japanese engine supplier that powered McLaren to successes back then. Williams had this success as well with HONDA THE JAPANESE MANUFACTURER. Honda took the engines of them after Frank Williams ended up on a wheel chair and gave them to McLaren who used HONDA THE JAPANESE MANUFACTUER to win. It is relevent to the topic, sorry you don't want to hear the facts of what happened back then. Hadred of any sort was not mentioned by myself.

You are making yourself looking bad.

No one forced/blackmailed Honda to drop Williams and do McLaren. McLaren was just another team looking for best engines they could get. Like many other teams (not spoiled by having their own engine production). I've actually heard story (true or not) that Honda wanted out of Williams because of their cultural/corporate philosophy, not being able to see Williams as best representative for their brand any more.

And what would you like to see McLaren do, anyway? Turn offer and let some other team get Honda power? "Hey guys, Honda wants deal with us... naah, we can't do that to poor Frank, he just had an accident"..?

That aside, Williams did just as good - if not better - with Renault engines.

[nikon133]

Fair enough McLaren Fan, your point has been taken. You do a great job in defending McLaren. A McLaren warrior you truly are.

Regarding this topic it is clear that the Japanese teams are not doing well because as a full team of their own (Therefore not counting Honda powered Williams' and McLarens) they lack experience. I guess it will change in time. Well I can see Honda changing anyway and moving up.

One last comment to McLaren Fan. Please so not call me a clown for using my first language. People are not clowns because they apeak another language other than English. My comment was made in Italian as I was appauled how Bud told me to F off. Remember I am a woman. What I said was "Quello non è il modo di parlare con una donna! Imparati un poco di galateo con le donne per favore!", which means "That is not the way to speak to a woman. Learn some etiquette with women please!" Personally I am not accustomed in having men tell me the F word but anyway I can see where he is coming from. Another true McLaren Warrior Bud is, ready to defend McLaren at all cost.

It is, however, very impolite using your first language among people who don't use it at all. If you really have something to say, say it so that others can understand it. Otherwise, there's no point of saying it in this forum at all - you could just as well say it in front of your mirror (if it makes you feel better).

And saying things like "... but anyway I can see where he is coming from" tells much about where you are coming from as well - don't you think so? Not that I am supporting his usage of "F" word either.

[7UpJordan]

No one forced/blackmailed Honda to drop Williams and do McLaren. McLaren was just another team looking for best engines they could get. Like many other teams (not spoiled by having their own engine production). I've actually heard story (true or not) that Honda wanted out of Williams because of their cultural/corporate philosophy, not being able to see Williams as best representative for their brand any more.

The real reason was that Honda were desperate for Williams to hire a Japanese driver but Sir Frank would not budge. Honda and Senna had a great relationship and he convinced them to power McLaren, so Honda broke away from Williams and gave them a compensation package and the rest is history. Prost and Ron Dennis had asked Honda to power them before Senna came along - still in his Lotus days after Renault had pulled out - and Honda chose to go with Senna.

Sir Frank and Patrick are more wiser these days in their relationships with manufacturers and appear to have played an ace by taking on Kazuki Nakajima, not only is he Toyota backed but he has also got pace and potential that will almost certainly show he is not a "journeyman travelling to teams on manufacturers' behast" that is often the stereotypical view of Japanese drivers.

[nikon133]

Does anyone believe luck has a roll to play?

Maybe in '60... Not any more... unless a bug in CAD software causes a change that works better than original design

[7UpJordan]

Does anyone believe luck has a roll to play?

Maybe in '60... Not any more... unless a bug in CAD software causes a change that works better than original design

Or if somebody secretly revives ground effects that not even the FIA scrutineers could find? Only Colin Chapman would have been the man to try and do such a thing though.