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[overboost]

Well only one of them has the same amount of championships as the other 2 put together.

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Only one of them has been beaten 3-0 in race wins in on season

The truest metric of F1 is race wins. So we know all we need to about Seb - Ricciardo is 3x better

Your right so

Vettel 5.57 wins a year
Hamilton 4.71 wins a year
Alonso 2.41 wins a year

Makes Vettel the better driver

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They won those in different cars. We can only compare wins as teammates. So Alonso matched Lewis, Lewis is much better than button, Seb is better than webber but much worse than Ricc, Lewis is twice as good as Nico, etc, these are the only tangible facts we have

Webber beat Rosberg at Williams and therefore is twice as good as Nico putting him equal to Hamilton. But wait Webber was beaten 4x by Vettel so Vettel is better than Hamilton. Hang on, Ricciardo beat Vettel so Ricciardo is much better than Vettel and therefore much, much better than Hamilton.

Yup this teammate comparison method is the way to go! Probably not.

ps. I guess you have given up on the Team Principals top ten then?

[racechick]

Nah, I'm sorry Overboost, but whichever way you twist it , Vettel Is not much better than Hamilton. He isn't as good. Sorry if it upsets, but he just isn't.
And not putting Hamilton in your top three drivers shows that you dislike him irrationally. Fair enough. That's your choice.
But I think you'll find yourself in the vast minority of F1 enthusiasts by not selecting Hamilton as one of the top three current drivers. There's plenty of evidence to suggest he's clearly the best, but I accept choice is subjective. Not putting him in the top three? I think that's a but silly.

[overboost]

Nah, I'm sorry Overboost, but whichever way you twist it , Vettel Is not much better than Hamilton. He isn't as good. Sorry if it upsets, but he just isn't.
And not putting Hamilton in your top three drivers shows that you dislike him irrationally. Fair enough. That's your choice.
But I think you'll find yourself in the vast minority of F1 enthusiasts by not selecting Hamilton as one of the top three current drivers. There's plenty of evidence to suggest he's clearly the best, but I accept choice is subjective. Not putting him in the top three? I think that's a but silly.

Not at all, I wouldn't put Vettel ahead of Hamilton as he had a dismal showing in 2014. I was poking fun with the whole 'driver comparison' method, sorry if it didn't come off that way.

[racechick]

Nah, I'm sorry Overboost, but whichever way you twist it , Vettel Is not much better than Hamilton. He isn't as good. Sorry if it upsets, but he just isn't.
And not putting Hamilton in your top three drivers shows that you dislike him irrationally. Fair enough. That's your choice.
But I think you'll find yourself in the vast minority of F1 enthusiasts by not selecting Hamilton as one of the top three current drivers. There's plenty of evidence to suggest he's clearly the best, but I accept choice is subjective. Not putting him in the top three? I think that's a but silly.

Not at all, I wouldn't put Vettel ahead of Hamilton as he had a dismal showing in 2014. I was poking fun with the whole 'driver comparison' method, sorry if it didn't come off that way.

Oh I see. Ok.

[vaptin]

Obviously it's all a subjective decision, and as outsiders we only have a limited amount of (biased) 3rd party information to go on, but I guess thats just part of the fun.

I think it's Alonso v Hamilton in terms of best "most proven" drivers. If suddenly all drivers were unallocated seats, and the team principles had a free choice for their preferred picks, it'd be between Hamilton and Alonso IMO. Reading quotes etc. from people in the paddock also tends to reflect this strongly.

Between Hamilton and Alonso, I'd say actually, it's head v heart.

Hamilton is heart, he drives because he enjoys it, he likes to feel his way through things and get on with it and wears his heart on his sleeve. And of course, is very fast.

Alonso, is head, he's driven and calculating , DC once said he imagines Alonso brushes his teeth in the shower, and I think that's accurate; Alonso is a metrome, he'll come at you with everything he has. Obviously he has plenty of natural talent too. But I think that also ends up being his weakness, sometimes he over thinks stuff, overcomplicates it all. Tries to make sure the stars are align. I'd say Hamilton takes a simpler standpoint(I'm not insulting Hamilton here, just describing my perspective of their perspectives with things).

Let's put it this way. If they both drove a 5-door hatchback, primarily for the school run and to carry the shopping. Alonso will be the guy who checks his tyres etc. every trip, gets in the car, adjusts the seat, mirrors every time and pulls over at the slightest sign of a fault. Hamilton will get in there and drive it, listening to the engine to decide if it'll break down or not.

TBH, I think Hamilton is probably the net faster driver. Alonso claws his way up into the elite of current F1 drivers through sheer persistence.

But of course, you can't just separate out the driver, your on track ability has variables not just linked to innate talent, it's all really about the optimum intergration of driver with car and the team as a whole unit. So a drivers ability in that sense, I think should also be validly recognised.

[CookinFlat6]

Webber beat Rosberg at Williams and therefore is twice as good as Nico putting him equal to Hamilton. But wait Webber was beaten 4x by Vettel so Vettel is better than Hamilton. Hang on, Ricciardo beat Vettel so Ricciardo is much better than Vettel and therefore much, much better than Hamilton.

Yup this teammate comparison method is the way to go! Probably not.

ps. I guess you have given up on the Team Principals top ten then?

We can only compare wins as teammates

As usual, you display your single digit reasoning capabilities

We were talking about RACE WINS BETWEEN TEAMMATES as a metric with a lot more sophistication than you can get your irrationality around.

When did Webber win more races than Rosberg in the same car? yup only in your dreamworld where Tiger Woods lost all his sponsors because he had an affair

Grown ups are talking about wins amongst teammates as an accurate metric, I wont explain to you why as it would be mean

Anyways all yu need to know is that the TPs voted Lewis the best by the highest margin seen, and Riccardo didnt even come second, he was practically the same as Bottas, and Bottas had a legal car

[CookinFlat6]

Nah, I'm sorry Overboost, but whichever way you twist it , Vettel Is not much better than Hamilton. He isn't as good. Sorry if it upsets, but he just isn't.
And not putting Hamilton in your top three drivers shows that you dislike him irrationally. Fair enough. That's your choice.
But I think you'll find yourself in the vast minority of F1 enthusiasts by not selecting Hamilton as one of the top three current drivers. There's plenty of evidence to suggest he's clearly the best, but I accept choice is subjective. Not putting him in the top three? I think that's a but silly.

He will find himself in good company amongst those that boycott certain drivers or golfers, and ofcourse members who create a false username, sign out of one and into the other half a minute later, spew the n word then sign out and hey presto their normal login reapears 30 second later

As clever as MS testing the 2014 hybid wastegate and intercooler during V8 races in 2012

[overboost]

Webber beat Rosberg at Williams and therefore is twice as good as Nico putting him equal to Hamilton. But wait Webber was beaten 4x by Vettel so Vettel is better than Hamilton. Hang on, Ricciardo beat Vettel so Ricciardo is much better than Vettel and therefore much, much better than Hamilton.

Yup this teammate comparison method is the way to go! Probably not.

ps. I guess you have given up on the Team Principals top ten then?

We can only compare wins as teammates

As usual, you display your single digit reasoning capabilities

We were talking about RACE WINS BETWEEN TEAMMATES as a metric with a lot more sophistication than you can get your irrationality around.

When did Webber win more races than Rosberg in the same car? yup only in your dreamworld where Tiger Woods lost all his sponsors because he had an affair

Grown ups are talking about wins amongst teammates as an accurate metric, I wont explain to you why as it would be mean

Anyways all yu need to know is that the TPs voted Lewis the best by the highest margin seen, and Riccardo didnt even come second, he was practically the same as Bottas, and Bottas had a legal car

A big fan of Bernie's medal system are ya now!

Please cookin this contrived and meaningless 'metric' is no more than a feeble attempt to try and find a way around Vettel's superior statistics. And how to rate those in cars that are not able to deliver wins? - Alonso had an equal year to Raikkonen in 2014 according to cookin! Great metric you have there.

But for fun lets go with cookin/Bernie's medal system just for a minute. What happens in 2008? - Massa wins the wdc 6 to 5! Oops that didn't work out for your guys benefit.

Oh well now you will need to find another grown up metric to play with!

cookin gets it wrong yet again.

ps. Is this the same TP vote that has picked either Alonso and Vettel as best since 2008! You are in complete agreement with that record, yes? Hamilton an average of 3.5 best and rated behind Alonso and Vettel on all occasions and Button and Raikkonen as well over this time.

He will find himself in good company amongst those that boycott certain drivers or golfers, and ofcourse members who create a false username, sign out of one and into the other half a minute later, spew the n word then sign out and hey presto their normal login reapears 30 second later

^This kind of bile has no place on this forum. I strongly suggest that you remove these lies and to refrain from repeating this kind of bs in the future wrt to me or anyone else. Accusations of racism is not a topic to be lied about nor to be used as a pathetic joke. This 'hipster racism' only serves to perpetuate prejudice and has been found to be just a mask for the users own opinions on the subject.

[Hammer278]

Nah, I'm sorry Overboost, but whichever way you twist it , Vettel Is not much better than Hamilton. He isn't as good. Sorry if it upsets, but he just isn't.
And not putting Hamilton in your top three drivers shows that you dislike him irrationally. Fair enough. That's your choice.
But I think you'll find yourself in the vast minority of F1 enthusiasts by not selecting Hamilton as one of the top three current drivers. There's plenty of evidence to suggest he's clearly the best, but I accept choice is subjective. Not putting him in the top three? I think that's a but silly.

Not at all, I wouldn't put Vettel ahead of Hamilton as he had a dismal showing in 2014. I was poking fun with the whole 'driver comparison' method, sorry if it didn't come off that way.

So instead of a proper debate, you prefer to resort in 'poking fun'....that's good to know. Saves everyone else here time from reasoning with the likes of you in the future.

[Hammer278]

Obv iously it's all a subjective decision, and as outsiders we only have a limited amount of (biased) 3rd party information to go on, but I guess thats just part of the fun.

I think it's Alonso v Hamilton in terms of best "most proven" drivers. If suddenly all drivers were unallocated seats, and the team principles had a free choice for their preferred picks, it'd be between Hamilton and Alonso IMO. Reading quotes etc. from people in the paddock also tends to reflect this strongly.

Between Hamilton and Alonso, I'd say actually, it's head v heart.

Hamilton is heart, he drives because he enjoys it, he likes to feel his way through things and get on with it and wears his heart on his sleeve. And of course, is very fast.

Alonso, is head, he's driven and calculating , DC once said he imagines Alonso brushes his teeth in the shower, and I think that's accurate; Alonso is a metrome, he'll come at you with everything he has. Obviously he has plenty of natural talent too. But I think that also ends up being his weakness, sometimes he over thinks stuff, overcomplicates it all. Tries to make sure the stars are align. I'd say Hamilton takes a simpler standpoint(I'm not insulting Hamilton here, just describing my perspective of their perspectives with things).

Let's put it this way. If they both drove a 5-door hatchback, primarily for the school run and to carry the shopping. Alonso will be the guy who checks his tyres etc. every trip, gets in the car, adjusts the seat, mirrors every time and pulls over at the slightest sign of a fault. Hamilton will get in there and drive it, listening to the engine to decide if it'll break down or not.

TBH, I think Hamilton is probably the net faster driver. Alonso claws his way up into the elite of current F1 drivers through sheer persistence.

But of course, you can't just separate out the driver, your on track ability has variables not just linked to innate talent, it's all really about the optimum intergration of driver with car and the team as a whole unit. So a drivers ability in that sense, I think should also be validly recognised.

Wow a non-Hamilton fan with some serious reasoning capability! A rare commodity.

[CookinFlat6]

Nah, I'm sorry Overboost, but whichever way you twist it , Vettel Is not much better than Hamilton. He isn't as good. Sorry if it upsets, but he just isn't.
And not putting Hamilton in your top three drivers shows that you dislike him irrationally. Fair enough. That's your choice.
But I think you'll find yourself in the vast minority of F1 enthusiasts by not selecting Hamilton as one of the top three current drivers. There's plenty of evidence to suggest he's clearly the best, but I accept choice is subjective. Not putting him in the top three? I think that's a but silly.

Not at all, I wouldn't put Vettel ahead of Hamilton as he had a dismal showing in 2014. I was poking fun with the whole 'driver comparison' method, sorry if it didn't come off that way.

So instead of a proper debate, you prefer to resort in 'poking fun'....that's good to know. Saves everyone else here time from reasoning with the likes of you in the future.

Don't forget to just accept his fallacies because arguments will earn you a warning. It's like the useless and dangerous driver on the road that ones not allowed to swerve to avoid. And instead the cops tell everyone to just stay off the roads when he is about

[CookinFlat6]

We can only compare wins as teammates

Please cookin this contrived and meaningless 'metric' is no more than a feeble attempt to try and find a way around Vettel's superior statistics

cookin gets it wrong yet again.

Yup, you are absolutely right, race wins in identical cars is a meaningless statistic

and a GoPro camera caused MS' accident

And you hit the nail right on the head by declaring that teams developed their own engines during the V8 era

And yes MS DID develop the 2014 car in 2012 by testing parts DURING the races

and yes you are correct that everyone hates Tiger Woods, and that he destroyed billions in sponsor share value and thats why he is only number 1 on the 2014 endorsements list having breached the 1 billion mark

[CevertF1]

I'd like to follow up my opinion that all three are very talented and worthy champions but imo Alonso is the most naturally talented by adding this thought.

(Yes, I know people will hate my opinion, that's fine as long as you don't get insulting about it)

in my opinion Lewis could be a 3-4 times champion by now **IF** he had totally focused on his F1 career, I believe that if he was as focused as Ayrton Senna or Michael Schumacher then he would have more titles by now without a doubt. Sadly he seems to be easily sidetracked by all the silly celebrity nonsense etc etc, I don't mean to be argumentative, this is just my personal observation.

[CookinFlat6]

Ok that makes sense, Alonso is the most naturally talented and he has the same amount of titles having been around twice as long as the lass talented Lewis. However Lewis should have a few more WDCs but isn't as focussed as he could be

So what's Alonso's excuse?

Surely as he is more talented he should have more than Lewis who is less talented and unfocussed to boot

Is he even more unfocused?

[myownalias]

Both Alonso and Hamilton have not had the car to win titles, simple as that, who is better, that is subjective, I personally think that they are equals. I would dearly love to see Hamilton and Alonso in the Mercedes (or even a McLaren) together, that would be an interesting battle, the two best drivers on the grid currently battling it out in the same machinery, I don't see Alonso buckling under the pressure, clean driving off the track when Hamilton steams up behind him like Rosberg did.