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[Hammer278]

Great points!! You made me think!!

p.s.

...Making Abu Dabi really REALLY lottery based.

With the double points system, if the top three drivers have engine blow outs before this race,
it's entirely possible (though not probable) that the driver in fourth position is crowned WDC!!

It would be similar to 2007 last race when Kimi had a stroke of casino magic

And, it would be similar to 2008's last race when Glock lost position to Hamilton, who finished in 5th; but, won the title!
Talk about "a stroke of casino magic"!!

And I was thinking none in this forum would be so ignorant as to think Hamilton was 'lucky' to win that WDC when he was almost extremely unlucky if Glock's crazy gamble had indeed worked.

[spankyham]

Great points!! You made me think!!

p.s.

...Making Abu Dabi really REALLY lottery based.

With the double points system, if the top three drivers have engine blow outs before this race,
it's entirely possible (though not probable) that the driver in fourth position is crowned WDC!!

It would be similar to 2007 last race when Kimi had a stroke of casino magic

And, it would be similar to 2008's last race when Glock lost position to Hamilton, who finished in 5th; but, won the title!
Talk about "a stroke of casino magic"!!

And I was thinking none in this forum would be so ignorant as to think Hamilton was 'lucky' to win that WDC when he was almost extremely unlucky if Glock's crazy gamble had indeed worked.

I think Sagi may have been subtly drawing attention to the casino/luck reference to the Glock/betting rumors from that race.


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[CookinFlat6]

The casino magic refered to Kimi coming from nowhere to hit the jackpot - a bit like having double points in the last race, because he won + Lewis didnt score high, against the grain of the WDC chase so far

2008 with Glock has no parallel to double points or casino magic. The only similarity is that they were both final races.

Lewis was on target to win the WDC in 2007, Kimi got double points and won in the last race
Lewis was on target to win the WDC in 2008, He did

reminds me of the old saying 'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing'

[spankyham]

:confused:
The casino magic refered to Kimi coming from nowhere to hit the jackpot - a bit like having double points in the last race, because he won + Lewis didnt score high, against the grain of the WDC chase so far

2008 with Glock has no parallel to double points or casino magic. The only similarity is that they were both final races.

Lewis was on target to win the WDC in 2007, Kimi got double points and won in the last race
Lewis was on target to win the WDC in 2008, He did

reminds me of the old saying 'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing'

Perhaps you just don't know, but in 2012? Glock admitted to placing a bet on Vettel to win the WDC.

[CookinFlat6]

Glock hit the jackpot in 2012 by betting on Vettel

Going back to 2008, Glock betting on Seb is irrelevant to any parallel to double points in the last race. Seb was not in a position to win the WDC before the last race. Every driver had a chance to score normal points towards the WDC. Lewis scored the points required to win the WDC. There was no casino style double or bust scenario

Glock finished in a position dictated by his relative speed throughout the race, which in turn was disctated by his choices of pitting for faster tyres or continuing on slower tyres

[sagi58]

Great points!! You made me think!!

p.s.

...Making Abu Dabi really REALLY lottery based.

With the double points system, if the top three drivers have engine blow outs before this race,
it's entirely possible (though not probable) that the driver in fourth position is crowned WDC!!

It would be similar to 2007 last race when Kimi had a stroke of casino magic

And, it would be similar to 2008's last race when Glock lost position to Hamilton, who finished in 5th; but, won the title!
Talk about "a stroke of casino magic"!!

And I was thinking none in this forum would be so ignorant as to think Hamilton was 'lucky' to win that WDC when he was almost extremely unlucky if Glock's crazy gamble had indeed worked.

I think Sagi may have been subtly drawing attention to the casino/luck reference to the Glock/betting rumors from that race.

And, here I was thinking no one on this forum would be so ignorant as to not recognize that what's good for the goose is good for the gander!!

[sagi58]

reminds me of the old saying 'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing'

That's funny, this exchange reminds me that "ignorance is not bliss"!!

Look at it that 2008 race from Massa's point of view: he did everything necessary to win the WDC in Brazil,
albeit from a different starting point than Hamilton. It was the last corner of the last race and Hamilton got
that last point to win the WDC.

From Massa's point of view, it was indeed a very lucky lottery win for Hamilton to come in 5th!!

p.s. Just a reminder that there are always two sides to everything.

[sagi58]

Perhaps you just don't know, but in 2012? Glock admitted to placing a bet on Vettel to win the WDC.

Too subtle!

[CookinFlat6]

No one has yet explained what Glock betting on Seb winning a WDC has to do with the last race in 2008 being a parallel of the last race in 2007 with regards to the double points in last race

Kimi gained 'double' points and won the 2007 WDC against the grain of results leading to the finale

Lewis won the 2008 WDC by gaining the points required. No one snatched a WDC at the last race due to a 'double points' scenario



Maybe its fine to just throw in random statements

[CookinFlat6]

From Massa's point of view, it was indeed a very lucky lottery win for Hamilton to come in 5th!!

p.s. Just a reminder that there are always two sides to everything.

This makes no sense at all. Before the race Lewis was in control of winning the WDC, all he had to do was finish in 5th and he did.

if he had to finish 3rd then he would have run the race accordingly

Massa could not win the WDC going into the race unless Lewis did not get the points he needed, if he got the points he needed even a win by Massa would not be good enough

Many a WDC has been settled by the leading driver targetting exactly 1 point more than any other result from the 2nd place driver. This is not called luck, its how F1 is

Maybe someone could explain where the luck came in to play. Massa always knew he had to win AND hope Lewis did not come 5th.

this is mind numbing stuff

[sagi58]

From Massa's point of view, it was indeed a very lucky lottery win for Hamilton to come in 5th!!

p.s. Just a reminder that there are always two sides to everything.

This makes no sense at all. Before the race Lewis was in control of winning the WDC, all he had to do was finish in 5th and he did.

if he had to finish 3rd then he would have run the race accordingly

Massa could not win the WDC going into the race unless Lewis did not get the points he needed, if he got the points he needed even a win by Massa would not be good enough

Many a WDC has been settled by the leading driver targetting exactly 1 point more than any other result from the 2nd place driver. This is not called luck, its how F1 is

Maybe someone could explain where the luck came in to play. Massa always knew he had to win AND hope Lewis did not come 5th.

this is mind numbing stuff

Nothing you don't agree with ever makes any sense!! You really should learn how to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes".

But, allow me to humour you: You'll remember that race/season was NOT Hamilton's finest!! It wasn't inconceivable that
he would make a desperate attempt, as he had previously, and crash out, altogether. There was no guarantee that he
wouldn't take some sort of unnecessary risk, in Brazil. The title was his to lose that day, luckily everything fell into place
for him and he did win it. But, really? Winning the title by one point, without even winning the race?

That 5th place finish was NOT his greatest accomplishment, I'm sure even you could agree with that!

[sagi58]

Many a WDC has been settled by the leading driver targetting exactly 1 point more than any other result from the 2nd place driver. This is not called luck, its how F1 is

Isn't that strange?? I could have sworn you said that Kimi's win was a ""stroke of casino magic""!!
Oh, wait!! You did!!

It would be similar to 2007 last race when Kimi had a stroke of casino magic

[CookinFlat6]

Are you really telling me that you are unable to work out and contribute according to a particular context? Its almost like an attention deficit with kids after drinking fizzy stuff. I have given you the benefit of doubt up till now, so please try to stay on topic long enough to conclude this increasingly tiresome discourse.

We were talking about the double points rule and how it could create a lottery (casino magic) by allowing a driver to get lucky in the last race and gain points to win against the flow of the title run.

E.g one driver has been leading the points table and has outscored the others gradually, only to be over taken because of double points awarded in the last race.

2007 Lewis led WDC into last race, Kimi had 'double point' casino win
2008 Lewis led WDC into last race, there was no reversal due to 'double points' casino event

There is no relevance how many points each was won by

Like I said I gave you the benefit of doubt based on your frequent factual lapses, however it now appears that you are unwilling or unable to conduct a structured or logical argument without derailing it with irrelevant statements that you then abandon when challenged.

[sagi58]

Luck is luck is luck is luck is luck is luck is luck!! Is that focussed enough for you???

Casino magic = luck. Casino magic = luck. Casino magic = luck. Still focussed??

I was the one who gave the scenario about there being a possibility that a fourth place driver
could win the WDC in the last race, with the double point system.

YOU couldn't resist the temptation to take another swipe at Ferrari/Kimi, for which you are
infamous at throwing in randomly, whenever the mood strikes you.

I followed suit with Hamilton's luck at not losing the championship in 2008, a season where
luck wasn't always on his side, in part thanks to his own unfortunate choices.

By the way, IF there had been a double points system in 2008, Hamilton would have finished
with 102 points and Massa would have been crowned WDC with 107!! In 2007, Hamilton would
have ended the season with 111 and Kimi would have STILL been WDC with 120 points.

Neither of those two last races were a shining example of Hamilton at his best!! You should
hope that his ""unlucky"" streak of season finale's doesn't continue because the double point
system may still not be enough for Lady Luck to shine on him!!

You seem to take umbrance at anything that doesn't fall in with your own line of thinking.
If that's what you choose to call focussed, then you may well believe that I have some sort
of attention problem.

But, you would be wrong. Again.

[CookinFlat6]

This is my final attempt

Massa could not win the WDC going into the race unless Lewis did not get the points he needed, if he got the points he needed even a win by Massa would not be good enough

Maybe someone could explain where the luck came in to play. Massa always knew he had to win AND hope Lewis did not come 5th.

Nothing you don't agree with ever makes any sense!! You really should learn how to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes".

Derailing the argument with an irrelevant reference

But, allow me to humour you: You'll remember that race/season was NOT Hamilton's finest!!

irrelevant, nothing to do with double points casino magic. You are factually wrong, that was his BEST season to date out of 2, so another throwaway meaningless statement

It wasn't inconceivable that
he would make a desperate attempt, as he had previously, and crash out, altogether. There was no guarantee that he
wouldn't take some sort of unnecessary risk, in Brazil.

Irrelevant. Arguable, nothing to do with double points lottery casino magic

The title was his to lose that day,

You contradict yourself here, you previously said it was Massas and that Lewis was lucky, you even mentioned Glock. Now you say he had the title to lose suggesting it wassnt a stroke of luck, make your mind up, actually dont bother

luckily everything fell into place
for him and he did win it.

So it was in his hands and he was lucky he didnt have bad luck? Allrighty

But, really? Winning the title by one point, without even winning the race?

lets derail the argument again and hope no one notices, lets change the argument to how its bad to win the title by one point without winning the race

That 5th place finish was NOT his greatest accomplishment, I'm sure even you could agree with that!

Lets try another derailment for good measure, lets shift the argument to whether it was his greatest accomplishment and hope no one notices that there has been no explanation for how 2007 and 2008 are both an example of the 'double points' casino magic

forgive me if I now wait for more productive F1 discussions to get involved in