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[myownalias]

To be blunt, I think of Button as a bit of a journeyman. Let's face it, his championship was lucky. MrM gifted Brawn and a couple other teams a nice double diffuser and banned those of other teams. By the time the other DD's were legal Button had a huge lead.

Sure Button has had some bad luck but I think he average as far as F1 drivers go.

Here we go again; Button was not lucky to win his world title; he won it by scoring more points than anyone else... by your reckoning, if Vettel does win the title this season; he would have been lucky because he had the best car for the first half of the season, exactly the same as Button, frankly it really annoys me that people call Jenson's drivers title lucky... he's as worthy a champion as anyone else that had won a driver title. Nigel Mansell must have been lucky in '92 as well, he had the best car on the grid by far with some inventive technology, were some of Michael Schumacher's titles lucky as well; he had a team mate that was a clear #2 and also had the best car on the grid!

[andrew]

To be blunt, I think of Button as a bit of a journeyman. Let's face it, his championship was lucky. MrM gifted Brawn and a couple other teams a nice double diffuser and banned those of other teams. By the time the other DD's were legal Button had a huge lead.

Sure Button has had some bad luck but I think he average as far as F1 drivers go.

Here we go again; Button was not lucky to win his world title; he won it by scoring more points than anyone else... by your reckoning, if Vettel does win the title this season; he would have been lucky because he had the best car for the first half of the season, exactly the same as Button, frankly it really annoys me that people call Jenson's drivers title lucky... he's as worthy a champion as anyone else that had won a driver title. Nigel Mansell must have been lucky in '92 as well, he had the best car on the grid by far with some inventive technology, were some of Michael Schumacher's titles lucky as well; he had a team mate that was a clear #2 and also had the best car on the grid!

My reasoning is that the FIA gifted Brawn and a couple others a double diffuser. Red Bull have not been gifted anything by the FIA. Totally different situations.

[F1er]

To be blunt, I think of Button as a bit of a journeyman. Let's face it, his championship was lucky. MrM gifted Brawn and a couple other teams a nice double diffuser and banned those of other teams. By the time the other DD's were legal Button had a huge lead.

Sure Button has had some bad luck but I think he average as far as F1 drivers go.

Harry Potter put a spell on his Brawn,Jenson wasn't even driving it. It was an invisible ghost commanding the car,

[vaptin]

To be blunt, I think of Button as a bit of a journeyman. Let's face it, his championship was lucky. MrM gifted Brawn and a couple other teams a nice double diffuser and banned those of other teams. By the time the other DD's were legal Button had a huge lead.

Sure Button has had some bad luck but I think he average as far as F1 drivers go.

Here we go again; Button was not lucky to win his world title; he won it by scoring more points than anyone else... by your reckoning, if Vettel does win the title this season; he would have been lucky because he had the best car for the first half of the season, exactly the same as Button, frankly it really annoys me that people call Jenson's drivers title lucky... he's as worthy a champion as anyone else that had won a driver title. Nigel Mansell must have been lucky in '92 as well, he had the best car on the grid by far with some inventive technology, were some of Michael Schumacher's titles lucky as well; he had a team mate that was a clear #2 and also had the best car on the grid!

My reasoning is that the FIA gifted Brawn and a couple others a double diffuser. Red Bull have not been gifted anything by the FIA. Totally different situations.

,

Fair enough the DDD was a loophole in the regulations, though the teams who had one had done well to find the loophole and exploit it. Not sure the FIA handed it other as a gift.

With Redbull one could argue they've had a massive let off with the extreme blown diffusers that are illegal, being well, ignored for a large part of the season and now the regulations have come to a compromise with the teams.

[andrew]

Fair enough the DDD was a loophole in the regulations, though the teams who had one had done well to find the loophole and exploit it. Not sure the FIA handed it other as a gift.

So explain why certain teams were allowed to have their DD and others were not? I have searched for the answer to this and have argued tooth and nail that it was not FIA favoritism. Sadly the more I read and look into this the more it seems to be a gift from MrM.

Most teams found the loophole, only 3 were allowed to exploit it.

[vaptin]

Fair enough the DDD was a loophole in the regulations, though the teams who had one had done well to find the loophole and exploit it. Not sure the FIA handed it other as a gift.

So explain why certain teams were allowed to have their DD and others were not? I have searched for the answer to this and have argued tooth and nail that it was not FIA favoritism. Sadly the more I read and look into this the more it seems to be a gift from MrM.

Most teams found the loophole, only 3 were allowed to exploit it.

Are you sure about that?

This isn't just about the FIA, there was a legal case too (which ruled in favour of the FIA), so if there was a clear case of bias, don't you think the teams would've argued the FIA had acted unfairly, and that their banned versions were legal in court as well?

I know my reasoning is correlation based, but I don't feel like looking up the technical details.

[andrew]

Fair enough the DDD was a loophole in the regulations, though the teams who had one had done well to find the loophole and exploit it. Not sure the FIA handed it other as a gift.

So explain why certain teams were allowed to have their DD and others were not? I have searched for the answer to this and have argued tooth and nail that it was not FIA favoritism. Sadly the more I read and look into this the more it seems to be a gift from MrM.

Most teams found the loophole, only 3 were allowed to exploit it.

Are you sure about that?

This isn't just about the FIA, there was a legal case too (which ruled in favour of the FIA), so if there was a clear case of bias, don't you think the teams would've argued the FIA had acted unfairly, and that their banned versions were legal in court as well?

I know my reasoning is correlation based, but I don't feel like looking up the technical details.

The other teams did protest and eventually all of their DDs were allowed, by which time Brawn had a nice healthy lead. Bit of a conspiracy theory I know but it is what seems to have happened and all fits nicely. I am sure that it was part MrM's revenge (the other part being the book that was set to keep certain people's lawyers busy, but that is yet to materialise). di Montezemolo has long since been reputed as the one who was instrumental in exposing MrM's private soirees and his fued with McLaren/Ron Dennis goes way back. Funnily enough, it was Ferrari and McLaren that were the most vocal in the whole DD debacle.

[myownalias]

Were other teams not allowed to use a double diffuser design? I understood they were allowed to use a double diffuser while the legal battle was ongoing but it took quite a few races to catch up because of the lack of in-season testing (another reason to re-introduce in season testing), I believe that all the other frontrunning teams were developing a double diffuser furiously, Brawn's advantage had evaporated by race eight. That's my interpretation of the situation, I have nothing to back it up, just going from memory which can be a little hazy sometimes!

[racechick]

Fair enough the DDD was a loophole in the regulations, though the teams who had one had done well to find the loophole and exploit it. Not sure the FIA handed it other as a gift.

So explain why certain teams were allowed to have their DD and others were not? I have searched for the answer to this and have argued tooth and nail that it was not FIA favoritism. Sadly the more I read and look into this the more it seems to be a gift from MrM.

Most teams found the loophole, only 3 were allowed to exploit it.

Are you sure about that?

This isn't just about the FIA, there was a legal case too (which ruled in favour of the FIA), so if there was a clear case of bias, don't you think the teams would've argued the FIA had acted unfairly, and that their banned versions were legal in court as well?

I know my reasoning is correlation based, but I don't feel like looking up the technical details.

The other teams did protest and eventually all of their DDs were allowed, by which time Brawn had a nice healthy lead. Bit of a conspiracy theory I know but it is what seems to have happened and all fits nicely. I am sure that it was part MrM's revenge (the other part being the book that was set to keep certain people's lawyers busy, but that is yet to materialise). di Montezemolo has long since been reputed as the one who was instrumental in exposing MrM's private soirees and his fued with McLaren/Ron Dennis goes way back. Funnily enough, it was Ferrari and McLaren that were the most vocal in the whole DD debacle.

If Di'M was instrumental in exposing that corrupt, stupid, self centered and arrogant man's sexual deviations then he goes way up in my estimation.

[Jabberwocky]

Isn't it part of a drivers skill to know when to move teams when they are going to be good cars?

This is something Button has always seem to of done well. (admittedly a few years too early)

He was at Williams and go moved on just as they started to get good, His move to Renault was also a bit early as they soon started to get good and win a few championships. He moved to BAR/Honda/Brawn again he moved a few years earlier, but this time he was not kicked into touch by "A future Ferrari Driver" So he has moved to Mclaren, I am sure love them or hate them you must admit that there is a few more championships to come from them.

I suppose Rubens is also a good up and coming car picker. Stewart to Ferrari to Brawn.... then he should of retired.

[Drthjustice]

I'm suprised no one has got on this thread yet to say how "lucky" this win was......

[smokin]

I'm suprised no one has got on this thread yet to say how "lucky" this win was......

Probably because the win was down to good driving and great strategy in a good car. Or Great driving and good strategy - take your pick.

[myownalias]

I'm suprised no one has got on this thread yet to say how "lucky" this win was......

No-one can take this win from Jenson, he drove well and chose to stay out on slicks while Lewis and Webber came in for inters... Lewis admitted the better man won today, great sportsmanship!

[LewEngBridewell]

I'm suprised no one has got on this thread yet to say how "lucky" this win was......

No-one can take this win from Jenson, he drove well and chose to stay out on slicks while Lewis and Webber came in for inters... Lewis admitted the better man won today, great sportsmanship!

Indeed. Best man won. Team mate is pleased for him, and acknowledges he deserved victory, AND they raced closely but fairly on the track. Team harmony.

(Just a shame about the points gap to 1st... )

[What's Burning?]

I keep saying that McLaren have the best driver pairing on the grid, they're able to cast the widest net when fishing for wins! I can't wait to see the race, but I'm happiest in the fact that McLaren has made the real deal with progress and I expect them to be in contention for a win for the remaining races of the year and what more can we ask for?