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[acosmichippo]

DAMN that is one LOOONNGGG sentence!!!!

it's actually a collection of reasonably-lengthed sentences.

[myownalias]

I do appreciate Lewis Hamilton's drive and abilities but unless he can get control of his emotions while driving, even if things are going wrong, it will cause him to make mistakes that will more than likely cost him world championships; he could have been world champion last season if he was a little more cautious in his driving, specifically in Monza where he really didn't need to make that move in the first few corners. If you could combine Lewis' speed and aggression with Jenson's calm and calculated racing brain, it would be the perfect combination. I do think that Lewis does try to emulate his hero, Ayrton Senna; which is a no go in today's F1; Senna would probably struggle in modern F1; probably would have been excluded from several races by now in fact!

[oaba09]

Success in F1 is usually the result of a good car and a good driver. Lewis is a good driver but it's quite obvious that mclaren doesn't have the best car right now. It's hard to compare lewis and vettel since they're not driving for the same team.

Vettel is a good driver who has a good car. Put hamilton or alonso in red bull and I'm confident to say that they'll just be as dominating as vettel is right now.

[Hammer278]

I'm not a fan of Hamilton but I also not a hater either. I feel that Hamilton is getting increasingly frustrated by Red Bull and Sebastian Vettel's dominance in the first six races of the season. He is making many moves that is simply not on and ends in a crash. He is clearly a talented driver but he seems to lack maturity in his driving especially when stuck in the pack, taking unacceptable risks rather than biding his time and living for another day. I believe that Hamilton will become increasingly frustrated by his lack of winning which will ultimately cost him another world title unless he has a more superior car than everyone else. This is why I believe Hamilton is not a great driver, good driver, yes but not great; I believe he is trying too hard to be his idol Ayrton Senna!

Based on his performance at Monaco? A track where overtaking is impossible and it's impossible for Hamilton to not try and overtake, it was very much a case of unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

His 'recklessness' is exactly why he is currently sitting in 2nd place whilst Button is straggling. As Ayrton Senna once said; 'if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, competing to win'. Sitting back and biding his time is just not in his nature and that in itself is his greatest strength and weakness. He is an out and out racer and thats what makes him the most exciting driver to watch. If more drivers took a leaf from Senna's book I don't think i'd be disappointed.

Nice. Based on this, JPM was another driver who had a mentality like Lewis. However, JPM didn't have that consistent speed and fine skill in pulling off most his moves. Lewis is probably the best overtaker I've seen since watching F1.

Its sad that one race where he was not 'perfect', he's already being questioned about talent/skill/WDC capabilities. Fickleness knows no bounds.

Wait just a minute there sparky. I witnessed JPM win his two CART championship's and he was just as good as Lewis. Please let's not get all nostalgic with video's and such if one has never actually seen first hand one's skill while disputing someone else's.

Did you see those two years or are you just ranting?

Sorry, I speak more on what I saw in F1. Not on CART or whatnot, its a different ballgame altogether as the mentality in racing is different, there's a lot more at stake in F1. Did you think about this? Most probably not.

I've been watching F1 since 1998. However, even if I'm new to the sport, or been in it for a couple of years I believe I'm still qualified to make that post as Lewis has made many more successful overtakes if you compare him to anyone else on the grid today. If you have the time, which I think you do, you might like to research for some stats on no. of overtakes of all the drivers on the grid today. Posting it here would help prove my point.

[Hammer278]

Lewis is easily one of the top 3 drivers currently in F1. In my opinion he is better than Vettel and as good as Alonso (just look at their season in the same car). In the past, a great driver could overcome deficiencies in the car with bravery and skill, the driver was much more important. But now that there are detailed data streams being sent back to the pits to be analyzed, the driver is not so important. The car is much more important now and Vettel happens to have had the best car for the last two years, and Button had the best car the year before that. It's not that Lewis is failing, it's that McLaren is failing in building a good car. I have no doubt that Lewis or Fernando could take a car that was half a second slower than another car and win the WDC. But neither of them are good enough to bring a car that is a whole second a lap slower than another car and put it on the podium enough times to win the Championship. I own a kart track and pride myself on how close my karts are to each other in performance. One good driver testing them all back to back will be no more that half a second different from the fastest kart to the slowest. I could take one of our monthly all-u-can-race customers, put him in the quickest kart and I would still beat him 10 out of 10 races because I can make up that half a second. But, if one kart was a second quicker than another kart, my years of racing and the 35,000 laps I have on the track mean nothing, I'm still going to lose. Jenson was World Champion once, but he's no match for Lewis when in the same car-he needed a vastly superior car to beat Hamilton. Sadly, the WDC does not always go to the best driver on the grid, it often goes to very good drivers who are in the best car. It's painful to watch a driver I'm not cheering for walk away with the championship two years in a row but Lewis is still young, he'll get more championships. Regardless, no one can deny that at every race, Lewis is exciting to watch-F1 should put more cameras on his car.

This is a thread killer essentially. Awesome post mate.

[carmonwebber]

Lewis is easily one of the top 3 drivers currently in F1. In my opinion he is better than Vettel and as good as Alonso (just look at their season in the same car). In the past, a great driver could overcome deficiencies in the car with bravery and skill, the driver was much more important. But now that there are detailed data streams being sent back to the pits to be analyzed, the driver is not so important. The car is much more important now and Vettel happens to have had the best car for the last two years, and Button had the best car the year before that. It's not that Lewis is failing, it's that McLaren is failing in building a good car. I have no doubt that Lewis or Fernando could take a car that was half a second slower than another car and win the WDC. But neither of them are good enough to bring a car that is a whole second a lap slower than another car and put it on the podium enough times to win the Championship. I own a kart track and pride myself on how close my karts are to each other in performance. One good driver testing them all back to back will be no more that half a second different from the fastest kart to the slowest. I could take one of our monthly all-u-can-race customers, put him in the quickest kart and I would still beat him 10 out of 10 races because I can make up that half a second. But, if one kart was a second quicker than another kart, my years of racing and the 35,000 laps I have on the track mean nothing, I'm still going to lose. Jenson was World Champion once, but he's no match for Lewis when in the same car-he needed a vastly superior car to beat Hamilton. Sadly, the WDC does not always go to the best driver on the grid, it often goes to very good drivers who are in the best car. It's painful to watch a driver I'm not cheering for walk away with the championship two years in a row but Lewis is still young, he'll get more championships. Regardless, no one can deny that at every race, Lewis is exciting to watch-F1 should put more cameras on his car.

This is a thread killer essentially. Awesome post mate.

Hear, Hear!

Though as long as he doesn't repeat his pit-lane incident with Kimi ever again. Which race is next again? Uh-oh...

[IceManpjn]

Is Hamilton over-rated? Will he get another WDC?

No, I don't think he's overrated at all. He's a very talented driver that can pull things off when few, if any, other current drivers would. Whether or not he wins another WDC depends on him having the right car (just imagine him in a Red Bull in 2010 or 2011) and his bad luck holding off a bit.

In the Monaco thread we were talking about luck, because quite clearly Vettel did get lucky on Sunday. But during my great big wrap about how Vettel is so good, and friendly banter with Peng - I reminded myself that Hamilton also got quite lucky in Brazil '08 and theoretically the title should have been Massa's. If that had happened, would Hamilton be a World Champion today? Asking that question to myself - I started quaking inside. I starting thinking. I started doubting.

Without having read any replies to this thread....

We can't very well what-if everything. We could do that with not just one single moment but countless moments that could have changed championships. I mean, what if Lewis didn't beach his car in China in 2007 and he won the 2007 WDC? What if the stewards didn't rob Hamilton of his win in Spa in 2008, which would have meant Massa not getting the win handed to him and Hamilton having enough points by the time he got to Brazil that it didn't matter where he finished and effectively won before the final race even started? What if in 2010 he didn't have a gearbox failure in in Hungary, didn't get wrecked out in a collision with Massa in Italy two races later, didn't wreck out in a collision with Webber in the following race in Singapore, and didn't lose third gear in the next race in Japan and consequently had won the 2010 championship? There's plenty of luck, good and bad, sprinkled about all over the place, sometimes in Hamilton's favor and often against him. Hamilton could just as well have been a three-time champion by now had luck worked in his favor just a bit more.

[acosmichippo]

exactly. 'What if' arguments are lame.

[Stephen]

First the bombshell - I don't like Hamilton - I'd rather see Alonso win a race (and I don't support him either). However, his determination and ability to compete in an under-performing car has always impressed me. Yes he's arrogant, but he's great to watch and will undoubtedly win another Championship during his F1 career. I thought he was brilliant in Monaco (and Spain - although I'm not yet ready to admit I cheered as he closed in on Vettel) - he tried to win the race rather than take the easy option and simply follow the car in-front, hoping to jump them in the pits (unlikely) or see them make a mistake (unusual these days).

He's not over-rated, he's one of the best on the grid, but it's his attitude off-track which won't help him with on-track racing incidents. He's right to speak his mind, and in some ways I agree he's been hard done by, but his outburst would only get my back up if I were a steward (however right he might have been). He needs to keep a low profile in Canada - but for the sake of F1, and our enjoyment, I hope he doesn't!

(Having read this back I sound like a closet Lewis fan - ah well - at least I've lost my twisted penchant for Heidfeld )

[FRAFPDD]

Hmm,, a short sweet answer or a detailed analysis.

First things first, whilst truly asking for opinions and perhap banter on given subject Azza, this is a definite Knee-jerk reaction to what is simply one bad race for Hamilton, usually (going on 2010-11) he'll finish 2nd 2nd 3rd 7th 1st 6th, and whilst still second in the standings we're already making up our minds that he cannot handle racing. Of course he can.

In terms of Hamilton over-rated, you can ask any forumner, the more common posters the better that if i feel Hamilton does wrong ill say it, im not one of the fanboy group. But. He is the best thing ive ever seen happen to Formula One. Himself and Alonso are a level up from a yet to TRULY prove himself Vettel, and then theres Jenson and the potential wdc's. There is nobody that can truly say they are a go for the win (senna) driver like Hamilton. He is the only driver since Senna deserving of that helmet. And hes the only driver capable of pulling off the stuff, he so regularly does.

- Outbraking Kimi whos 20 metres in front in Monza
- Overtaking Massa in Monaco tunnel.
- Overtaking of all people Schumacher in Monaco
- Winning a wet British Grand Prix from 4th place by over a minute
- Overtaking 32 cars in the first 4 races of the 2010 season.
- After coming under pressure from Kubica in 5th comes out first corner on debut race having passed Alonso.
- Finished on podium first 9 races of career.
- Finished ahead on standings in first season, then teammate reigning and double world champion Alonso.

And then you look at the rare times heis being overtaken, like when Massa tried it in Malaysia 2007, and like a seasoned veteran he lulls him into a move that has Masas outbrake himself. Hes just such a talented driver. Also, drivers never get any worse, we can see when the cars allowing, as it has been for most of Hamiltons career even 10/11 he performs with it. Even in Formula Renault he started last one race and first the second race, from 11th. Natural born racer.

Sometimes we see Alonso pull likewise moves, but it is, and it is very rare, even schumi doing it. But Hamilton does it at will. Perhaps Alonso chooses not to but hey thats the difference between them.


Onto your second question, its a very hard task in the F1 world to decide such, we know Man U will win more titles, same with Barcelona, but we can never say an F1 driver will, cause we cant guarantee their car no matter what team will be up for it. I want to give you some examples of multiple world champions careers, look at the spacings between their titles:

Lauda: 1977(2nd) 1984(3rd) , thats a 7 year gap between titles.

Prost: 1986 (2nd) 1989 (3rd) thats a 3 year gap, and then 1989- 1993 (4th) thats a 4 year gap.


Schumacher: 1995 (2nd) 2000(3rd) thats a 5 year gap for a driver racing with Ferrari from 1996, to his next world title.


It is completely normal and the way Formula One works that drivers dont just win titles on the trot. Its beautifully worked out to keep competition and excitement ( other then2000-05 but thats an anomaly), Hamiltons last championship was 2008 thats..... not even 3 years ago yet. Im personally of the belief if Hamilton has a top car, maybe even a top three car, but all the top three are evenly paces. He will risnse the floor with anyone else bar Alonso, who will push him to the end. If we look back at even 2007, when do drivers ever suffer from neutral changes like that in the last race with such a huge lead, when do drivers tell their teams they can see the canvas on their tyre and they still dont bring them in. Other factors lost Hamilton 2007, 2008? when do third placeddrivers fighting for the championship get promoted to first when the winner gets a disgusting penalty like spa 2008. Alot has been out of his control before, and still he won.

One thing does have a constant poke in my back and that is the curse of the British racing driver, 90 percent of all our champions, of which there are about 10 have only one world title. However this is mere superstition and ive always felt and said the best drivers always end up with the titles to compliment how good they were, some more then others but roughly its always the case. If Hamilton stays at Mclaren his whole career i have no doubt he will win at least a couple more titles. If he moves to Ferrari then its the same, and if Red Bull are here to stay, which i dont believe they will, then if he goes there he'll win every year

[Jacob]

I don't think he's gonna win another title, not anytime soon, the white folks don't want to see him win another title (i am a white folk too, but i am fair), they are going to do their best to discredit him!!
Actually some folks here have already started it, everyone in my country thinks that he is an excellent driver, yet some folks here have opened topics asking if he is overrated, it's ridiculous.
If he is overrated, then atleast half of the drivers in f1 are overrated, the best way to solve this issue is put all of the drivers in identical cars and see who's better, anyway it is sad but it seems that Hamilton will have a serious problem with the folks around him at f1 (i hope i will be proven wrong), he should'nt have used the B word (black-racism) in any context, but for his inner truth i am glad he did.

[stonemonkey]

I get the feeling, considering the state of the cars atm and the points, that hamilton sees himself as the driver in the best position to at least make it difficult for vettel and stop him completely running away with everything and taking the title mid season.
In 3 out of 4 seasons hamilton has still been in the running in the final race, and has had only 3 race starts out of contention and I believe his crash in monza when chasing down button was due to the need to pass button to stay in championship contention as long as possible regardless of his actual chances and that his driving in monaco could be down to the same.

[phil12321]

Success in F1 is usually the result of a good car and a good driver. Lewis is a good driver but it's quite obvious that mclaren doesn't have the best car right now. It's hard to compare lewis and vettel since they're not driving for the same team.

Vettel is a good driver who has a good car. Put hamilton or alonso in red bull and I'm confident to say that they'll just be as dominating as vettel is right now.

Couldnt Agree more... Lets take last season for example... before Silverstone, redbulls strongest driver was webber until Horner Descided to switch Front Wings which ended up giving vettel pole so the car makes a huge differance in driver ability and confidence. The days of the valiant driver are over in F1 as technology have taken over the sport completely. IMO Lewis and Fernando are the absolute best in the sport. Fernando Knows all the grizzly tricks in F1 to be succesful, and Lewis is the most daring overtaker this sport has seen in a while. Yea Lewis complains alot but hey hes an F1 driver. Most Lewis haters couldnt live a day behind the wheel in his race suit. Go Lewis!!

[What's Burning?]

If you could combine Lewis' speed and aggression with Jenson's calm and calculated racing brain, it would be the perfect combination.

I think you'd wind up with Fernando Alonso.

[LewEngBridewell]

For a racer who was a complete match for double world champion Fernando Alonso in his rookie season back in 2007, how can he be classed as over-rated?

He makes mistakes, yes, but don't they all? They're human. He lets his emotions get the better of him sometimes, but this is a 200mph sport, and emotions are always running high.

Hamilton is a joy to watch, as he gives 100% all the time. He goes for overtakes that others wouldn't dare, and is fearless in wet-weather, as seen in Korea last season.

His approach is similar to that of Ayrton Senna's, as we can see here;

When you are fitted in a racing car and you race to win, second or third place is not enough. You must take the compromise to win, or else nothing. That means: you race or you do not.

That is why Senna and Hamilton are so great.