FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[RyRy]

But as I say, Hamilton on balance deserved the title, although a win by nearly 3 races (67 points) doesn't really tell the story of the championship and in my opinion, flatters Hamilton!

Forget 67points. It's 11-5. That's the real story.

Should also point out that any time Lewis quallified on pole position he won his races with the exception of Australia what was out of his hands however Rosberg has had an awful conversion rate and has only been better on fuel 2-3 times throughout the year, he also is significantly harder on his tyres than Hamilton which is a shocker because Hamilton in previous years struggled with keeping his tyres in check.

[Ferrari man 009]

But as I say, Hamilton on balance deserved the title, although a win by nearly 3 races (67 points) doesn't really tell the story of the championship and in my opinion, flatters Hamilton!

Forget 67points. It's 11-5. That's the real story.

I know it was 11-5, but quite a few of the wins without mechanical faults were decided by fine margins.

Clearly Rosberg's tactic was to get on pole, lead from the front and hopefully use the better strategy to stay there. Hamilton's strategy was to focus mainly on the race as that's where the points were. Either way it was close but to say Hamilton was that much better than Rosberg is for me, stretching it a bit. If you think back to Bahrain and Spain, arguably in both races Rosberg was faster but Hamilton had track position in both and could just about hold Rosberg off.

Had Hamilton won with Rosberg 2nd and the gap been 31 points, I would have said that was about right personally as that is just over a race.

Just my opinion you understand, don't want to take anything away by Hamilton but 67 points looks like he dominated the championship which wasn't the case. He was the better driver but was not dominant as say, Vettel was over Webber or Schumacher over Barrichello

[racechick]

But he had to fight for it Ferrariman. Barichello had to roll over andVettel was clearly favoured.

But not to take anything from Rosberg , he kept coming back all through the season. It was brilliant of Merc that they let these two guys race. Superb! full marks to Mercedes! Let's have some more of that!!!

[LH44]

I don't know why you keep mentioning 67points. It's clearly heavily skewed by the double points awarded today. Because of Mercedes' competitive advantage over the rest of the field, the points gap was always going to be irrelevant as they were guaranteed to finish 1-2 ceteris paribus.

[Ferrari man 009]

But he had to fight for it Ferrariman. Barichello had to roll over andVettel was clearly favoured.

That was sort of my point and to me makes Hamilton's WDC totally deserved and one he should be and clearly is proud of

[LRW]

RC can you believe that only ONE forum member has stepped up to take this bet? Simple, straight forward, yet still trepidation exists.
Even the bookies are giving Nico the nod at this point, you'd think we'd have a line of people around the block, looking to show those pompous Hamilton fans up.

NHcheese, you're the standard bearer and a big ups to you for that.

Since Nico has such an overwhelming lead that he just "can't lose" anyone picking him should put more skin in the game.

If Nico wins, Lewis supporters have to have their signature until the Australian season opener be;

Nico Rosberg is the WDC and he beat Lewis Hamilton fair and square.

Conversly if Nico loses, then the signature for his supporters will be;

I'm a Lewis Hamilton h8r and it burns my @ss that he's now a two time WDC.

I'll take that bet with anyone willing to go through with it.

Ill take that bet. If its not too late. My signature could do with an update. Hamilton will not win the WDC. I want him to, so bad. But he wont.

And then there were two.

Although, I must note that you're unexpectedly "playing the system" into a win/win situation.

Never one to back out on a bet........

[What's Burning?]

Hamilton deservedly won the title and is definitely worthy of being a 2 time F1 champion.

That said, I think Rosberg deserves a lot of credit. When the car failed he could have pitted, thrown the toys out of the pram and cried to the team about them letting him down when it mattered most. Instead, he fights till the end despite being offered to pit to avoid being lapped and graciously conceded that Hamilton would have won the title regardless of the failure.

Rosberg lost, but he lost with dignity and for me gained respect.

I also think Hamilton's championship is made more special because Rosberg made him earn it. It was not a walk in the park like 2 of Vettel's WDC's - Hamilton had to dig deep and fight for every win. Rosberg deserves a lot of credit for pushing Hamilton all the way, even if he did overstep the line once or twice.

But as I say, Hamilton on balance deserved the title, although a win by nearly 3 races (67 points) doesn't really tell the story of the championship and in my opinion, flatters Hamilton!

I think next year will be as good, Rosberg will come back fighting and while they arent best friends, I do think there is a mutual respect between them.

I think he did the only thing he could do under the situation, he realized that the championship was never his. The race was over before the first turn. It's not as if he could have had a chance to complain about the team letting him down even. Perhaps if he was leading and the Williams were seriously nipping at Lewis' heels. But there was nothing to complain about. I think Nico handled it well. In a post race interview with Will Buxton he said simply, Lewis deserved this, my issues with the car take nothing away from his championship because he was leading from the start and drove very well today paraphrasing something along those lines.

Nico's best season as an F1 driver and I'm sure he learned more about racing this year from losing a first WDC shot, than Lewis learned about winning a second WDC.

[CookinFlat6]

Either way it was close but to say Hamilton was that much better than Rosberg is for me, stretching it a bit. If you think back to Bahrain and Spain, arguably in both races Rosberg was faster but Hamilton had track position in both and could just about hold Rosberg off.

Glad you are here for the postmortem

Lewis was that much better - over double the wins - thats more than much better by anyones logical appraisal.

Bharain and Spain - Nico had the faster car yet Lewis was able to negate this advantage - you just confirmed why Lewis was much better

Another thing you might have missed is that Lewis is a 2xWDC with 2 different teams whereas Nico who has been in F1 longer has a total of zero WDCs

Cant argue against them stats ferrariman, for example Ferrari have kept a 1xWDC, ditched a 2xWDC for a 4xWDC, so next year they should kick arse, right????

[What's Burning?]

Don't make me go back and look at who else took this bet... there's some splainin' to do.

[CookinFlat6]

Don't make me go back and look at who else took this bet... there's some splainin' to do.

Thats a good point, I remember agreeing to this bet, I was only thinking about my own possible forfeit, I should have taken the name and numbers of the other side

WHO DID I BET WITH??????

1melon, Nhcheese, andrew, roth, <no need for name calling -Jab> - its gotta be one of them. surely??

btw WB, that red doent suit you, twice now I have had to step back and think 'that post makes sense whats happening?'

[Ferrari man 009]

Either way it was close but to say Hamilton was that much better than Rosberg is for me, stretching it a bit. If you think back to Bahrain and Spain, arguably in both races Rosberg was faster but Hamilton had track position in both and could just about hold Rosberg off.

Glad you are here for the postmortem

Lewis was that much better - over double the wins - thats more than much better by anyones logical appraisal.

Bharain and Spain - Nico had the faster car yet Lewis was able to negate this advantage - you just confirmed why Lewis was much better

Another thing you might have missed is that Lewis is a 2xWDC with 2 different teams whereas Nico who has been in F1 longer has a total of zero WDCs

Cant argue against them stats ferrariman, for example Ferrari have kept a 1xWDC, ditched a 2xWDC for a 4xWDC, so next year they should kick arse, right????

If you tried to understand what I was saying, I was suggesting that overall Hamilton did not thrash or dominate Rosberg as the final points tally suggests was the case. In a straight fight in quite a few of Hamilton's wins, it was small margins that decided the race. Hamilton having a charge at the start of the 2nd stint in USA when Rosberg was slightly over-cautious with his tyres was an example of these small margins.

That said, the small margins are the difference between a very good driver which Rosberg is and a champion which Hamilton is.

I wanted the best driver to win and he did, but Rosberg was a worthy competitor and showed he has the raw pace to beat Hamilton. Rosberg lost out on the small moments in races, maybe his tactic of trying to get pole and control the race from the front (thats what it looked like Rosberg's game plan was to me) was the wrong one.

At the end of the day I am just providing my opinion. If you have a constructive argument then I am happy to discuss and debate it, however, please don't dismiss my opinion because I support Ferrari as that is quite insulting. I don't know if that is what you are doing but that is how it comes across to me at times!

[CookinFlat6]

Ferrariman, apart from unreliability and teammate 'point proving' Lewis did what he did to Button and Heikki - he trashed them on 'track racing performance' they didnt compete on track, he almost always beat all 3 when both drivers finished - Wiki can tell you this - points or stats wise, who cares except those looking at wiki decades from now. We know what we have witnessed. Nico was not close to Lewis in racing performance - not at all - he was clearly inferior on race day, no argument - and got a spanking, same spanking Button and Heikki got

i dont think someone is saying dumb things just because they support Ferrari, I think someone is saying dumb things because they are saying dumb things

I already told you about the perceived classifications of those who wear Ferrari merchandise and invited you to gravitate to your group, but you keep speaking up for those who have never been to a race, mostly dont watch the races live on TV, have no problem with having no knowledge of F1 and are equally happy to admit that the love for ferrari and the partisanship, blind loyalty and blind worship for its drivers staff or racing results - supercedes the need to understand F1 or racing or cars or engines - then those that are the same but have the gumption to go on wiki before letting loose the passion, and at the other end of the scale those with enough interest in the cars and engines that they actually attend at least 1 race before commenting on what the engines sound like or how its changed etc

[Ferrari man 009]

Ferrariman, apart from unreliability and teammate 'point proving' Lewis did what he did to Button and Heikki - he trashed them on 'track racing performance' they didnt compete on track, he almost always beat all 3 when both drivers finished - Wiki can tell you this - points or stats wise, who cares except those looking at wiki decades from now. We know what we have witnessed. Nico was not close to Lewis in racing performance - not at all - he was clearly inferior on race day, no argument - and got a spanking, same spanking Button and Heikki got

I already told you about the perceived classifications of those who wear Ferrari merchandise and invited you to gravitate to your group, but you keep speaking up for those who have never been to a race, mostly dont watch the races live on TV, have no problem with having no knowledge of F1 and are equally happy to admit that the love for ferrari and the partisanship, blind loyalty and blind worship for its drivers staff or racing results - supercedes the need to understand F1 or racing or cars or engines - then those that are the same but have the gumption to go on wiki before letting loose the passion, and at the other end of the scale those with enough interest in the cars and engines that they actually attend at least 1 race before commenting on what the engines sound like or how its changed etc

1. Hamilton did not spank Rosberg - winning by 2-3 seconds (which Hamilton did most of the time) is not a spanking. When Alonso or Ricciardo beat Raikkonen or Vettel by 30-40 seconds, that is a spanking.

2. NONE of that paragraph is anything to do with me, but because I am a Ferrari fan you associate me with it is basically what you are saying. Well let me give you some FACTS. I have watched EVERY race in the last 10 years in full, most live and the odd one or two later the same day recorded if in a rare event I had to miss a race. I have only missed attending ONE British Grand Prix in ELEVEN years. So yes, I am a Ferrari fan, however, I am an F1 fan at the same time and I say what I see. At the start of the season I said NOTHING about the engines until I went to Silverstone and if i'm honest I didnt even notice the engines were quieter when I was there. But go ahead, dismiss everything I say because I support Ferrari.

The reason I still post on this forum is because I can have a reasonable discussion and debate with MOST people on here, but you are starting to really irritate me! Seems to me that if a Ferrari supporter disagrees with you they are automatically wrong.

You constantly state as a fact that Ferrari are cheats, yet when I pressed you for an actual example of when Ferrari were found guilty of cheating on another thread earlier you didn't even reply! So I ask you again, when were Ferrari last found guilty of cheating. And Germany 2010 does NOT count, for the same reasons that Mercedes tyre test does not count, neither were found guilty of cheating!

Either you are making a really good attempt at trolling or are just really short sighted when it comes to people who support other teams and drivers that you dislike.

[CookinFlat6]

uhh?

i replied to your 'when did Ferrari cheat' question and you responded to my response

lets all try to calm down here and stop getting our feelings hurt - I will debate all day with you if you want according to the rules of what debate achieves and if you feel i have taken a pot shot at your team, then please explain why they dont warrant it and why i am wrong to or you may be better off moaning in another direction - cos I really dont care less what you think

[CookinFlat6]

Out of courtesy, I will add something to this, even though we are off topic.

Anyone seriously comparing Merc and ferrari in terms of the commonly accepted definition of cheating is either trolling or worse.

like I said, the tribunal made it clear Merc did not cheat, it was a misunderstanding, end of story and we still have no concrete proof that they set out to cheat becuae they asked Charlie etc etc - past history

With ferrari, just the one example I gave you of issuing team orders when they were llegal is as clear as day that it was cheating - so the ex Ferrari TP Todt did not DQ them for cheating doesnt mean its not cheating, I am waiting for your proof that the FIA, as it did with Merc, categiorically defined the action and breach as NOT CHEATING - they didnt

So if you are seriously saying, because the ferrari biased FIA never DQed Ferrari for cheating its exactly the same as Mercs reprimand where the court costs were shared by the FIA and Merc etc then we are not discussing on the same adult level. just as the illegal bargeborads that ferrari got DQed for than won on a technical and dodgy appeal was also deemed as not cheating - wheres the proof? no prove Ferrari got the DQ overturned on a technicality, no one said they were NOT CHEATINg, just that they got away with cheating

And ferrari with the hidden extra payout and secret veto are comparable to Mercs tyre test?

Finally this wasnt about Ferrari, it was about red Bulls flexy cheating wings

No one really gives a sh!t about Ferrari cheating or not, it doesnt make a difference to their incompetence