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[f1ea]

Fred C. Dobbs- You scoured the rules and found nothing about how many moves a following driver can make to overpass and when they can try? I am shocked, absolutely shocked, I tell you!

Funny thing, i hadnt read Fred's post about the Driver A/B example until now that you mentioned........

Good post Fred!
Ahhh now that clearly deserves some name calling

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

...Fred C. Dobbs- You scoured the rules and found nothing about how many moves a following driver can make to overpass and when they can try? I am shocked, absolutely shocked, I tell you!

I double-checked, yes, but I didn't wait for the 13th race of the season to read the Sporting Regulations.

There is not nor ever has there been been any restriction on how aggressive an overtaking driver may be. As I noted earlier, the "One Move" rule isn't in the SR, it was an instruction or clarification which the FIA passed to the Race Director and the stewards as to how they were to enforce SR 16.1.

16.1 itself had been adequate for a number of years until a certain Michael Schumacher confused F1 for NASCAR and decided the penalty for deigning to try to pass him should be black donuts on the side of your car. And at Spa, no less!! This is video of the specific incident from the 2000 season (vs. Mika Hakkinen) that prompted the FIA to 'create' the "One Move" rule.

Lo siento si no puede interpretar la narración.

[Big Azza]

Well, what can I say?

When I saw Vettel overtake Kubica I was hoping to come on this forum today and say, "There you go, there's your proof."

In regards to his accident at the chicane, I don't think he was trying to overtake. He did change his line, but he just lost the car under breaking. It was not his intention to take out Button. But yeah, a big rookie error - except he's not a rookie anymore. So it's just an error.

Now, the move on Liuzzi, I'm unsure about. Yes Vettel caused an accident, but by that time he was in front of Liuzzi. So could Liuzzi have got out of the way? It would be worth looking at the onboard from Liuzzi's perspective.

A master class race from Kubica today in my absolute opinion. Unfortunately I fell asleep for the last 10 laps and missed the exciting rain.

The other great drive came from Petrov, fantastic job by him. And of course - the all-too-consistent Mr. Webber. A deserving World Champion. Now the team must throw all it's weight behind Webber.

[What's Burning?]

In regards to his accident at the chicane, I don't think he was trying to overtake. He did change his line, but he just lost the car under breaking. It was not his intention to take out Button. But yeah, a big rookie error - except he's not a rookie anymore. So it's just an error.

Yes, he was "trying" to overtake, his ability to qualify is stellar, his ability as a racer has a lot of catching up to do.

“First of all, I'm sorry,” Sebastian explained to reporters in the Spa paddock. “Obviously it wasn’t my intention to destroy his race or mine but I was close and I was faster than him.

“I tried to out-brake him on the outside but when I changed from the inside to the outside I lost the car under braking, on the bump, and I couldn't really control it anymore and unfortunately crashed into him.”

[Peng]

When I saw Vettel overtake Kubica I was hoping to come on this forum today and say, "There you go, there's your proof."

I actually do give Vettel some props for that overtake because he timed it extremely well and it was an excellent overtake i just wish he was that smooth with all of his overtake attempts.

Coulthard's comments about Vettel mirror my comments on this forum about Vettel in that he is having to improve his driving ability during his races and the fact he has been blessed with an amazing car has made it worse since he is a front runner and any accident/mistakes he makes are extremely important and generally blown out of proportion.

But as i have said this race to me proves my point that as an overall driver Vettel just hasn't matured in certain aspects and not only is it costing him his own WDC race but now has hindered a fellow drivers which is why most people are upset.

Personally i am not really mad at Vettel he apologised for the accident (which is something some wouldn't do :p) and admitted he was wrong so in my books he is all good and i don't think he deserves any extra penalties since he never scored any points himself so technically took himself out of the race along with Button.

[Hammer278]

Which is why Vettel didn't deserve the drive through. If his mistake hindered a fellow competitor, and Vettel had benefitted...then a drive through is in line.

Vettel was punished for his mistake already, the drive through was unnecessary overkill.

[Bubbie]

While watching it I was pissed off at Vettel for the crash with Button. But on further reflection I am wondering if this was due to Button getting off the gas early and covering off the inside. Vettel then had to go to the outside to avoid hitting him under braking. I think that the RedBull cars are so reliant on downforce that when they are in a tow they have a hard time braking - a'la Webber's 'Learning to Fly' routine from a few races back.

This is not saying it isn't Vettel's fault. He was definitely pushing too hard - and should know his car's weaknesses, but I think maybe there were some mitigating factors that played into a racing incident.

Also with regards to Kubica driving such a great race I would have to agree with that, but with one caveat. Hitting a couple of his own mechanics in the pits because he was busy 'adjusting things on the steering wheel for wet race setup' sounds also like a mistake.

One other item from this race... I have not been an Alonso fan this season, but I do feel bad for the guy. He had terrible luck in this race. I am also very impressed with the build quality on the Ferrari that after the collision with Barri it was still able to continue. Funny comment from one of the announcers that they learned to build tough cars when Schumi was driving for them. Then he made a mistake later in the race when it started to rain and popped the suspension rod. I do feel good for Massa to have a strong result in the race to show that he isn't just a moving roadblock to help his teammate.

Great drive by Schumi and Rosberg... I loved watching MSC get the better of Rosberg early in the race only to be repaid later with an overtake by Nico to retake the lead.

Also a good showing from Petrov to get up into the points from last place.

[myownalias]

Now that things have calmed down, I will add my two cents. The incident between Jenson and Sebastian, 100% Vettel's fault, he failed to read the road conditions and lost it under braking taking Jenson out of the race, a drive through penalty is fair in my opinion and I am a Jenson Button supporter. Rubens crashing into Alonso; 100% Barrichello's fault; again; got his braking wrong in tricky conditions. I believe we are probably down to a two horse race barring Hamilton or Webber failing to finish any of the remaining six races for the likes of Vettel, Button or Alonso to stand a chance of winning the WDC. Great drives from Schumacher and Rosberg, especially Schumacher coming up from 21st on the grid. Sutil did a great job also; kept out of trouble and made a double pass on both Mercedes. Kamui Kobayashi came from 18th to eighth for another strong points finish for Sauber. Alonso made too many mistakes today in changeable conditions and ultimately paid the price putting his Ferrari in the barrier all on his own!

[Peng]

Which is why Vettel didn't deserve the drive through. If his mistake hindered a fellow competitor, and Vettel had benefitted...then a drive through is in line.

Vettel was punished for his mistake already, the drive through was unnecessary overkill.

Well without the puncture Vettel would have finished within the points just down to the fact the RB6 is so fast even on a track that doesn't suit there car.

If he had scored points even 1 point i would have agreed with people saying he should be given further penalties because he got extremely lucky to not take himself out in that Button crash and looking at the finishing positions if he hadn't made several more mistakes after the Button incident he could have easily finished 6th since i doubt either of the Mercedes cars could have held him.

Anyway Hamilton was great to finish 1st but id give Sutil the best driver of this race award since in my opinion he was amazing and its great to see him finish 5th.

[darwin dali]

FM did well.
IN THE WET!!
Should shut up those people who made fun of him about his troubles in the wet.

[Big Azza]

Which is why Vettel didn't deserve the drive through. If his mistake hindered a fellow competitor, and Vettel had benefitted...then a drive through is in line.

Vettel was punished for his mistake already, the drive through was unnecessary overkill.

I think he did deserve the drive-through. And after the Liuzzi incident I would have given him another one, for good measure, had it not been for his puncture.

And then he would hopefully learn, and not do it again, and win the WDC this year.

Now that things have calmed down, I will add my two cents. The incident between Jenson and Sebastian, 100% Vettel's fault, he failed to read the road conditions and lost it under braking taking Jenson out of the race, a drive through penalty is fair in my opinion and I am a Jenson Button supporter. Rubens crashing into Alonso; 100% Barrichello's fault; again; got his braking wrong in tricky conditions. I believe we are probably down to a two horse race barring Hamilton or Webber failing to finish any of the remaining six races for the likes of Vettel, Button or Alonso to stand a chance of winning the WDC. Great drives from Schumacher and Rosberg, especially Schumacher coming up from 21st on the grid. Sutil did a great job also; kept out of trouble and made a double pass on both Mercedes. Kamui Kobayashi came from 18th to eighth for another strong points finish for Sauber. Alonso made too many mistakes today in changeable conditions and ultimately paid the price putting his Ferrari in the barrier all on his own!

What about Petrov?

[MAD MAX]

"Not bad for a number 2 driver" Well done Mark, a truly deserved second place after his disaster at the start.

Horner strenously denies that Sebastian will be any less favoured at Monza as far as his car is concerned

[Peng]

"Not bad for a number 2 driver" Well done Mark, a truly deserved second place after his disaster at the start.

Horner strenously denies that Sebastian will be any less favoured at Monza as far as his car is concerned

That car doesn't look like it is within FIA regulations are you sure it has passed the tests?

[Amanda]

Back to topic, Brindle said at the start that Massa overshot his start box by a couple of metres but nothing more was said after that. Did he reverse back before the lights went out or did none of the officials notice?

I'd forgotten about that in all the excitement. Does anyone know what/if there were any consequences for overshooting the box? Brundle said he overdid it by a good 2 metres.

[AK-86]

Eventful race as ever mainly due to constant change in weather conditions but pleased with performance from Virgin Racing boys maybe with a bit more luck could have done even better but progress is really good with the cars.

Great win for Lewis and felt sorry for Button when caught up in the big error by Vettel.