- 21 Jul 14, 15:16#409191
Are you actually labelling me a hater? I'll leave that one because I'm sort of thinking you didn't catch the gist of my post if you are. And Novemeber? What, when Hamilton does or doesn't win the championship? As long as if he doesn't win you at no point bring up DNFs, general poor luck, Nico in general, stewarding, Monaco or any other thing which cheated him because he drove an otherwise perfect season.
And I can't mix and match fact and opinion. How do you separate them? Like, fact he hit Button. Opinion, he was sloppy. So he hit him on purpose? That's just silly. So I'm allowed maybe to say it was an accident because he clearly didn't mean to hit him but I'm not allowed to infer anything more sinister, like he was sloppy. Are we just putting everything down to s**t happens now?
Or he went 20 to 3? But shouldn't it have been second if he hadn't hit Button? Hang on it should have been first because there should have been a safety car which would have brought Hamilton up to Bottas and Nico and, well you fill in the rest. Predicting outcomes isn't fact either but I don't see you refuting any posts like that. Is that because they are victim posts in an alternate universe where Hamilton wins and everyone's happy and not like mine which are Hamilton was a bit ragged but which doesn't follow your script, so don't count. And I said he should finish second on some thread. I don't want the man to fail, take no joy in it, but am willing to bring up reasons why.
And the physical effects of the shunt is irrelevant because absolutely nobody has said it impacted on the result. His sloppiness, to whatever degree makes you comfortable, did. There's a direct line from sloppy to third. Nothing from 27G to anyhwere.
If all you ever want to take from my posts are the points where I point out he wasn't perfect and ignore the rest, that's your choice. I said he drove a good race. It's all there in whichever style you've got the site set up in. Otherwise it's just a circle jerk. Paul Rand, a true great in the graphic design field, when he taught at Yale would walk straight past the good work and make everybody else cry with his criticism. When asked why, he said, 'if it's good, what do you want me to say?'
Patronise me all you want, I'm not much bothered, but the guy's a work in progress, we all are. He does stuff wrong. He has weaknesses. Let's not perhaps act like schoolkids but vaguely mature adults who can see him as a separate identity to ourselves and that if I criticise this relative stranger, then I'm not criticising you and your ideals. This is how I treat it. I enjoy my little ding dongs with cookie, but some others are just fanboys and that's for the birds.
You're the only one mentioning the 27G. Quite a lot. Did I miss the part where Hamilton did? Or anybody? I mean as a serious impediment to his driving, not just he was a bit sore? Otherwise it's a moot point.
I had a lengthy discussion yesterday about Button where I characterized Hamilton's performance as he was supposed to do that, everyone picked him for 2~4 in the pool and so their expectations are very similar to mine. The critisms as to the way he did it is your opinion rather than fact. You're allowed it, but since you do bring up his sloppiness in the process, I felt it fair to bring up the shunt. They're both things that apparently are irrelevant, yet you brought up the irrelevant factor.
It's not a circle jerk, that's what you'd like it to be. It's a discussion about the facts and mental weakness and sloppiness are not facts. The fact that he got from 20th on the grid to 3rd and limited his losses is a fact.
So we either have a factual discussion or a discussion about our opinions, you can't mix and match, and your opinion that he was sloppy doesn't trump the result as much as you'd like. You were very silent during Hamilton's four win run, I suspect you'll be just as silent should he do it again. Believe me, we've seen a lot of haterz fall by the wayside and their "reasoned" arguments all tend to unravel themselves in the face of the outcome. Let's have the conversation again in November.
Are you actually labelling me a hater? I'll leave that one because I'm sort of thinking you didn't catch the gist of my post if you are. And Novemeber? What, when Hamilton does or doesn't win the championship? As long as if he doesn't win you at no point bring up DNFs, general poor luck, Nico in general, stewarding, Monaco or any other thing which cheated him because he drove an otherwise perfect season.
And I can't mix and match fact and opinion. How do you separate them? Like, fact he hit Button. Opinion, he was sloppy. So he hit him on purpose? That's just silly. So I'm allowed maybe to say it was an accident because he clearly didn't mean to hit him but I'm not allowed to infer anything more sinister, like he was sloppy. Are we just putting everything down to s**t happens now?
Or he went 20 to 3? But shouldn't it have been second if he hadn't hit Button? Hang on it should have been first because there should have been a safety car which would have brought Hamilton up to Bottas and Nico and, well you fill in the rest. Predicting outcomes isn't fact either but I don't see you refuting any posts like that. Is that because they are victim posts in an alternate universe where Hamilton wins and everyone's happy and not like mine which are Hamilton was a bit ragged but which doesn't follow your script, so don't count. And I said he should finish second on some thread. I don't want the man to fail, take no joy in it, but am willing to bring up reasons why.
And the physical effects of the shunt is irrelevant because absolutely nobody has said it impacted on the result. His sloppiness, to whatever degree makes you comfortable, did. There's a direct line from sloppy to third. Nothing from 27G to anyhwere.