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[Roth]

If all you ever want to take from my posts are the points where I point out he wasn't perfect and ignore the rest, that's your choice. I said he drove a good race. It's all there in whichever style you've got the site set up in. Otherwise it's just a circle jerk. Paul Rand, a true great in the graphic design field, when he taught at Yale would walk straight past the good work and make everybody else cry with his criticism. When asked why, he said, 'if it's good, what do you want me to say?'

Patronise me all you want, I'm not much bothered, but the guy's a work in progress, we all are. He does stuff wrong. He has weaknesses. Let's not perhaps act like schoolkids but vaguely mature adults who can see him as a separate identity to ourselves and that if I criticise this relative stranger, then I'm not criticising you and your ideals. This is how I treat it. I enjoy my little ding dongs with cookie, but some others are just fanboys and that's for the birds.

You're the only one mentioning the 27G. Quite a lot. Did I miss the part where Hamilton did? Or anybody? I mean as a serious impediment to his driving, not just he was a bit sore? Otherwise it's a moot point.

I had a lengthy discussion yesterday about Button where I characterized Hamilton's performance as he was supposed to do that, everyone picked him for 2~4 in the pool and so their expectations are very similar to mine. The critisms as to the way he did it is your opinion rather than fact. You're allowed it, but since you do bring up his sloppiness in the process, I felt it fair to bring up the shunt. They're both things that apparently are irrelevant, yet you brought up the irrelevant factor.

It's not a circle jerk, that's what you'd like it to be. It's a discussion about the facts and mental weakness and sloppiness are not facts. The fact that he got from 20th on the grid to 3rd and limited his losses is a fact.

So we either have a factual discussion or a discussion about our opinions, you can't mix and match, and your opinion that he was sloppy doesn't trump the result as much as you'd like. You were very silent during Hamilton's four win run, I suspect you'll be just as silent should he do it again. Believe me, we've seen a lot of haterz fall by the wayside and their "reasoned" arguments all tend to unravel themselves in the face of the outcome. Let's have the conversation again in November.

Are you actually labelling me a hater? I'll leave that one because I'm sort of thinking you didn't catch the gist of my post if you are. And Novemeber? What, when Hamilton does or doesn't win the championship? As long as if he doesn't win you at no point bring up DNFs, general poor luck, Nico in general, stewarding, Monaco or any other thing which cheated him because he drove an otherwise perfect season.

And I can't mix and match fact and opinion. How do you separate them? Like, fact he hit Button. Opinion, he was sloppy. So he hit him on purpose? That's just silly. So I'm allowed maybe to say it was an accident because he clearly didn't mean to hit him but I'm not allowed to infer anything more sinister, like he was sloppy. Are we just putting everything down to s**t happens now?

Or he went 20 to 3? But shouldn't it have been second if he hadn't hit Button? Hang on it should have been first because there should have been a safety car which would have brought Hamilton up to Bottas and Nico and, well you fill in the rest. Predicting outcomes isn't fact either but I don't see you refuting any posts like that. Is that because they are victim posts in an alternate universe where Hamilton wins and everyone's happy and not like mine which are Hamilton was a bit ragged but which doesn't follow your script, so don't count. And I said he should finish second on some thread. I don't want the man to fail, take no joy in it, but am willing to bring up reasons why.

And the physical effects of the shunt is irrelevant because absolutely nobody has said it impacted on the result. His sloppiness, to whatever degree makes you comfortable, did. There's a direct line from sloppy to third. Nothing from 27G to anyhwere.

[LRW]

Girls??? Here in the Forum?? Why are they not in the Kitchen cooking my bloody tea??

If you actually COOK your bloody tea, you need some girls to show you how to make tea.

tea = dinner = main evening meal (wtf do you call it in Msia?)

[Hammer278]

Girls??? Here in the Forum?? Why are they not in the Kitchen cooking my bloody tea??

If you actually COOK your bloody tea, you need some girls to show you how to make tea.

tea = dinner = main evening meal (wtf do you call it in Msia?)

Boil. We say boil tea...since its about boiling some water and putting in some powder/a slice of lemon on the side. Cooking actually takes some effort.

[LRW]

Girls??? Here in the Forum?? Why are they not in the Kitchen cooking my bloody tea??

If you actually COOK your bloody tea, you need some girls to show you how to make tea.

tea = dinner = main evening meal (wtf do you call it in Msia?)

Boil. We say boil tea...since its about boiling some water and putting in some powder/a slice of lemon on the side. Cooking actually takes some effort.

But we cook our food. Not boil. We (well some of us) call our evening meal 'tea'.

[darwin dali]

Girls??? Here in the Forum?? Why are they not in the Kitchen cooking my bloody tea??

If you actually COOK your bloody tea, you need some girls to show you how to make tea.

tea = dinner = main evening meal (wtf do you call it in Msia?)

Boil. We say boil tea...since its about boiling some water and putting in some powder/a slice of lemon on the side. Cooking actually takes some effort.

But we cook our food. Not boil. We (well some of us) call our evening meal 'tea'.

Weirdos.
Next you're gonna call your lunch 'beer'?

[LRW]

Girls??? Here in the Forum?? Why are they not in the Kitchen cooking my bloody tea??

If you actually COOK your bloody tea, you need some girls to show you how to make tea.

tea = dinner = main evening meal (wtf do you call it in Msia?)

Boil. We say boil tea...since its about boiling some water and putting in some powder/a slice of lemon on the side. Cooking actually takes some effort.

But we cook our food. Not boil. We (well some of us) call our evening meal 'tea'.

Weirdos.
Next you're gonna call your lunch 'beer'?

Only on Fridays.....

[Roth]

The guy's a work in progress alright, but when you spit out opinions without actual facts or reasoning to back them up you're gonna get called out by vaguely mature adults. And since you do spend a significant time assessing this relative stranger, it shows you do pay quite a bit of attention to his 'work in progress' aka strengths/weaknesses.

I recall your name from quite some time back but its funny how you've suddenly piped up since Hamilton has gotten into this bad run and most your posts are highlighting Hamiltons 'weaknesses' (without actual reasoning/facts) these days. What's the deal. You don't dislike Hamilton at all but you spend a lot of energy highlighting his apparent 'mental weakness', 'rash driving', and what not...it's curious behaviour. Disturbing even. Who's fan are you of exactly? Or do you just pick on a driver or create baseless arguments to get noticed?

And one last question.... you mention some others are just fanboys, who exactly would you be referring to here if I may ask. People defending the driver from baseless opinions? Or questions they pose which you just can't answer so you choose to ignore and put a label on them to cover yourself. Like you did with the sexist comment on the other thread about Wolff, and later "I forgot to put smilies" that one was a laugh.

What happens is I write a relatively innocuous two lines on Hamilton early on then get caught up in a s**t storm. That's where the time is spent.

Disturbing behaviour? Why is it disturbing? That I write a post then somebody else replies and brings something new. In the real world it's called a conversation, a discussion, an argument, whatever. If people keep bringing things to the table I keep replying. I'm not babbling on to myself. And why not highlight his weaknesses? You aren't curious why he does certain things? Does everything have to come down to quantifiable facts and figures and only what you can see before your eyes? So I'm not a fan if i think otherwise? If you'd like to outline the parameters of fandom for me and tell me where I'm going wrong, I'm all ears.

What do you care who I think a fanboy/girl is? If you don't consider yourself one there's nothing to worry about.

And I didn't forget to put smilies on the other thread. I don't use them. It doesn't mean I meant what you thought I did. It means... I don't know what it means.

And sorry for not replying to every question i ever get. I take requests if there's anything bothering you in particular.

And don't call me out in a big fat gellatenous glob after the fact and without substance and reasoning. Do it as I post. Otherwise you're as bad as me.

And this, honestly...

I think Lewis has cracked a bit mentally. Austria was a bit of a one-off, or so we thought.

This time it seemed he was desperately trying to convince himself and the team that it was not worth a try in the end...and the team told him to let Nico through. Why didn't he just go ahead and do the bloody lap like everyone else did?

Shows to me Lewis is not comfortable with Nico's speed now, especially in qualifying. If he had no fear he would've just done the SOP, go for the last lap since the tyres are going into the bin anyway. It was a strange qual, but your WDC rival is going for the lap, why the f**k would you abort your chance? Not at all wise. This doesn't show a lack of intelligence to me though, more of fear.

The WDC is now harder than ever. And Nico's earned every bit of what he's got except for the sh!t he pulled in Monaco, that's worth a potential 14 points max (reverse 1-2). If he gets the WDC, the Lewis bashers are going to have a field day.....even as a Lewis supporter I was shouting !DIOT when I heard from Crofty that Lewis had let Nico through.

...which side are you on, Hammie, because it's curious behaviour?

[stonemonkey]

Girls??? Here in the Forum?? Why are they not in the Kitchen cooking my bloody tea??

If you actually COOK your bloody tea, you need some girls to show you how to make tea.

tea = dinner = main evening meal (wtf do you call it in Msia?)

Boil. We say boil tea...since its about boiling some water and putting in some powder/a slice of lemon on the side. Cooking actually takes some effort.

But we cook our food. Not boil. We (well some of us) call our evening meal 'tea'.

Breakfast, lunch, tea.

You wouldn't say I'm off to boil my lunch.

[What's Burning?]

If all you ever want to take from my posts are the points where I point out he wasn't perfect and ignore the rest, that's your choice. I said he drove a good race. It's all there in whichever style you've got the site set up in. Otherwise it's just a circle jerk. Paul Rand, a true great in the graphic design field, when he taught at Yale would walk straight past the good work and make everybody else cry with his criticism. When asked why, he said, 'if it's good, what do you want me to say?'

Patronise me all you want, I'm not much bothered, but the guy's a work in progress, we all are. He does stuff wrong. He has weaknesses. Let's not perhaps act like schoolkids but vaguely mature adults who can see him as a separate identity to ourselves and that if I criticise this relative stranger, then I'm not criticising you and your ideals. This is how I treat it. I enjoy my little ding dongs with cookie, but some others are just fanboys and that's for the birds.

You're the only one mentioning the 27G. Quite a lot. Did I miss the part where Hamilton did? Or anybody? I mean as a serious impediment to his driving, not just he was a bit sore? Otherwise it's a moot point.

I had a lengthy discussion yesterday about Button where I characterized Hamilton's performance as he was supposed to do that, everyone picked him for 2~4 in the pool and so their expectations are very similar to mine. The critisms as to the way he did it is your opinion rather than fact. You're allowed it, but since you do bring up his sloppiness in the process, I felt it fair to bring up the shunt. They're both things that apparently are irrelevant, yet you brought up the irrelevant factor.

It's not a circle jerk, that's what you'd like it to be. It's a discussion about the facts and mental weakness and sloppiness are not facts. The fact that he got from 20th on the grid to 3rd and limited his losses is a fact.

So we either have a factual discussion or a discussion about our opinions, you can't mix and match, and your opinion that he was sloppy doesn't trump the result as much as you'd like. You were very silent during Hamilton's four win run, I suspect you'll be just as silent should he do it again. Believe me, we've seen a lot of haterz fall by the wayside and their "reasoned" arguments all tend to unravel themselves in the face of the outcome. Let's have the conversation again in November.

Are you actually labelling me a hater? I'll leave that one because I'm sort of thinking you didn't catch the gist of my post if you are. And Novemeber? What, when Hamilton does or doesn't win the championship? As long as if he doesn't win you at no point bring up DNFs, general poor luck, Nico in general, stewarding, Monaco or any other thing which cheated him because he drove an otherwise perfect season.

And I can't mix and match fact and opinion. How do you separate them? Like, fact he hit Button. Opinion, he was sloppy. So he hit him on purpose? That's just silly. So I'm allowed maybe to say it was an accident because he clearly didn't mean to hit him but I'm not allowed to infer anything more sinister, like he was sloppy. Are we just putting everything down to s**t happens now?

Or he went 20 to 3? But shouldn't it have been second if he hadn't hit Button? Hang on it should have been first because there should have been a safety car which would have brought Hamilton up to Bottas and Nico and, well you fill in the rest. Predicting outcomes isn't fact either but I don't see you refuting any posts like that. Is that because they are victim posts in an alternate universe where Hamilton wins and everyone's happy and not like mine which are Hamilton was a bit ragged but which doesn't follow your script, so don't count. And I said he should finish second on some thread. I don't want the man to fail, take no joy in it, but am willing to bring up reasons why.

And the physical effects of the shunt is irrelevant because absolutely nobody has said it impacted on the result. His sloppiness, to whatever degree makes you comfortable, did. There's a direct line from sloppy to third. Nothing from 27G to anyhwere.

Talk to me in November as in when Lewis is the 2014 WDC, no excuses necessary. Then you can complain about how he didn't wave to the crowd vigorously enough. Deal?

[What's Burning?]

I think Horner brings up a good point, why not let the guy go out and get killed on a bad batch of Brembo rotors that Merc may have received? It's the only way Vettel would have gotten on the podium.

ESPNF1 Christian Horner has called on the FIA to clarify why Lewis Hamilton was allowed to change brake material between qualifying and the race without having to start from the pit lane, saying it appears to have set a new precedent going forwards.

After crashing out of qualifying with brake failure, Mercedes changed Hamilton's brake material from one supplied by Brembo to a different one from Carbon Industrie. The FIA accepted that the discs were similar in weight, inertia and function and therefore permitted the change within parc ferme regulations, which exist to stop teams changing the specification of cars between qualifying and the race.

However, Hamilton said he had originally chosen the Brembo brakes because of their characteristics compared to the Carbon Industrie ones and, although Horner said Red Bull would not launch a protest, he could not understand why it was permitted.

"It is a change of car specification - if you change it like for like that is one thing, but if you change it for something that is made by a different manufactuer that has a different characteristic, as described by the driver himself as something different … it is an interesting precedent.

"We need a clarification because obviously if you can do that, then what else can you change? It will be interesting to see what is the justification of that allowance was."

Asked if it could have been permitted for safety reasons, Horner said Red Bull had encountered no problems with the brake material.

"I think we are running the same material on both of our cars as Lewis was yesterday. So it was safe on our car."

[LRW]

But we cook our food. Not boil. We (well some of us) call our evening meal 'tea'.

Breakfast, lunch, tea.

You wouldn't say I'm off to boil my lunch.

I know. Hammer is having a mad 5 moments and confusing food with the boiled leaf drink I think.

[1Lemon]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

In Abu Dhabi, With a reconfigured car to suit the Sunday race environment if I recall, having been DSQ for low fuel instead of going to the back for a brake failure leading to a 27G shunt. Vettel did start in 24th place instead of 20th like Lewis. Hamilton, Webber and Grossjean all out that day, making his 3rd place a little easier to attain. Kimi went on to Win that race, so Renault was on it.

This comes across as you putting Vettel's achievements down for whatever reason when there's a lot of similarities.

Don't you put Hamilton's efforts down regardless? The glaring difference and the one thing you neglected to mention in your "analysis" of how poorly he carved his way through the field was the previous day's 27G accident. So my assessment that three cars that would have finished ahead of him is a fair observation to say the least. The only car that would have had a chance to finish ahead of Lewis would have been Massa. A like for like comparison.

I honestly don't get why people keep thinking I don't like Lewis and want to always put him down; maybe it's because I'm not a diehard fan for him and therefore am a heathen. If you noticed I didn't put anyones achievements down, they were both sterling drives by two very good drivers who gave it their all to get as high as possible. When did I say he was poorly going through the field, yes he made some mistakes but IIRC so did Vettel, anyone will when passing that number of cars. Take the Ham-blinkers off and see that I wasn't putting anyone down, just saying it wasn't the greatest drive in human history, and is not any kind of record as Hammer suggested.

You stay out of it Lemony, my response was directed at Roth, I think when I described Vettel's performance that day it was a relatively objective comparison.

And don't give me that crap... you're a heathen despite not being a Hamilton fan.

Damn this APP and it not saying who is replying to who, yet it notified me!

[RyRy]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

Only with the help of 2 safety cars though ( I think ? )

Yes, 2 safety cars, The red bull was also the fastest car and they also changed their gear ratios to make it easier for him to overtake which if Hamilton was allowed to do at Germany would have made it so much easier for him to overtake cars.


Roth, you are still way too critical and the whole "mental weakness" thing is just ridiculous. I am probably one of the least biased people on this forum as I don't really have a favourite driver as such.

Like I don't like Alonso but I sure do appreciate his driving, talent and praise him when deserved. The only drivers I don't support are Maldonado and Grosjean however Grosjean has improved and is starting to win be back as he matured A LOT.

I don't like Alonso,

[madbrad]

Something weird started happening around lap 48 and went on for several laps. Alonso and Ricciardo were up to something. I thought, "What the #@^% is going on?". I didn't know what it was. I didn't recognize it. Maybe in the far corners of my memory there's a faint image of it form way way back, but that wasn't enough to help me understand it. I had to do a lot of research and stuff. Historical records were creaked open. Eventually, I found it. Vivid memories suddenly flooded my brain.
They were








racing.

[madbrad]

The red bull was also the fastest car and they also changed their gear ratios

I thought the cars have the gear ratios set for the season? One of the new regs for '14.