FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[racechick]

I really like Toto, but disagree that Nico's drive yesterday was sensational. It was very good, but error strewn and at the end he had all the advice from the team after Lewis' demise to drive to protect the car. He no longer had pressure from Lewis and he was protected by a stricken Force India from other threats for most of the remaining laps. So I'd say very lucky boy rather than sensational drive.

[sagi58]

Just goes to prove that it's not just about the driver...
the car (in this case "handicapped" by failure) and the team
(completely focused on Rosberg), as well as an element of luck
("help" from other teams)!

[What's Burning?]

Toto is slang for vagina in a lot of Spanish speaking countries. I can't help chuckle every time I see him quoted.

[Hammer278]

He's known as the Totonator in the paddock and the Mercedes social media team. So what does that make it...vaginanator? He's a terminator of...vaginas? Now that's badass.

[What's Burning?]

...vaginanator?

winner.

[LH44]

Hamilton needs to get his quali act together. Contrary to popular opinion, when the cars are closely matched the points are effectively handed out on Saturday.

[racechick]

Nico is good at quali, was fast against Schumacher, but I expected Lewis to be further ahead like he was in the first races. I wonder if he's holding back until his last lap to stop Nico getting his data, and thus putting himself under pressure to do it in one lap and at the mercy of things like people going off and reversing on the track bringing out yellows. Just a thought.

[Jabberwocky]

Toto Wolffs alter ego

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

Nico is good at quali, was fast against Schumacher, but I expected Lewis to be further ahead like he was in the first races. I wonder if he's holding back until his last lap to stop Nico getting his data, and thus putting himself under pressure to do it in one lap

That seems to be what's been implied. And the problem with that strategy seems to me that it'd be hard to get warmed up for a top lap if you're holding back. I mean, can you really prepare and feel the car if you're holding back in certain spots?

It might be better to just let Rosberg play how he wants to play and adapt to it (ie. just be faster in his sectors and look at the data himself). If he did that it'd send a stronger message.

[racechick]

Nico is good at quali, was fast against Schumacher, but I expected Lewis to be further ahead like he was in the first races. I wonder if he's holding back until his last lap to stop Nico getting his data, and thus putting himself under pressure to do it in one lap

That seems to be what's been implied. And the problem with that strategy seems to me that it'd be hard to get warmed up for a top lap if you're holding back. I mean, can you really prepare and feel the car if you're holding back in certain spots?

It might be better to just let Rosberg play how he wants to play and adapt to it (ie. just be faster in his sectors and look at the data himself). If he did that it'd send a stronger message.

Maybe after the last two races Lewis will change his tactics.

[What's Burning?]

Nico is good at quali, was fast against Schumacher, but I expected Lewis to be further ahead like he was in the first races. I wonder if he's holding back until his last lap to stop Nico getting his data, and thus putting himself under pressure to do it in one lap

That seems to be what's been implied. And the problem with that strategy seems to me that it'd be hard to get warmed up for a top lap if you're holding back. I mean, can you really prepare and feel the car if you're holding back in certain spots?

It might be better to just let Rosberg play how he wants to play and adapt to it (ie. just be faster in his sectors and look at the data himself). If he did that it'd send a stronger message.

I never said that Nico was cheating, I did however draw the analogy that in grade school when you copied the other guys answer that's what it's called. My comments were to address recent fashionable statements that Nico is the hard worker of the two.

So you'd have to agree that if Lewis can't gleam anything from Nico's performance, what does he gain? Yest Mercedes has a policy of sharign data but he's not benefiting in the slightest and so the cheetah loses out the the hyenas. Your assertion is a bit childlike, well Lewis should just go faster... and that's easy to do in a formula one car right? I could understand your position if there was anything to gain, but it's Lewis that has to keep finding the time, and doing the work to find that time and it's Nico's side of the garage that will sit and say, here here's what he did to go faster just do that.

I never said he was cheating, but you can see how that's what it would feel like when the cheetah looses the kill to a pack of hyenas.

[sagi58]

I never said that Nico was cheating, I did however draw the analogy that in grade scholl when you copied the other guys answer that what it's called. My comment were to address recent fashionable statements that Nico is the hard worker of the two.

So you'd have to agree that if Lewis can't gleem anything from Nico's performance, what does he gain? Yest Mercedes has a policy of sharign data but he's not benefiting in the slightest and so the cheetah loses out the the hyenas. Your assertion is a bit childlike, well Lewis should just go faster... and that's easy to do in a formula one car right? I could understand your position if there was anything to gain, but it's Lewis that has to keep finding the time, and doing the work to find that time and it's Nico's side of the garage that will sit and say, here here's what he did to go faster just do that.

I never said he was cheating, but you can see how that's what it would feel like when the cheetah looses the kill to a pack of hyenas.

Since you introduced the educational analogy, allow me to interject. Today, we allow students to work together, in groups.

This is advantageous in a number of ways:
- students learn to work together collaboratively and co-operatively;
- in working together, a "stronger" student can share how they arrive at solutions;
- in explaining their strategy, the "stronger" student benefits from learning how to express/explain their solution;
- the "not so strong" student benefits from seeing how a peer arrives at a solution;
- the "not so strong" student also benefits from learning how to express/explain their strategy;
- both types of student get timely feedback from their peers;
- both have the opportunity to develop their own methodology.

Through working collaboratively and co-operatively, youngsters learn how to get along with others.
This is extremely important when participating in the work force, since it's rare to find employment
where there is no interraction with colleagues.

What does this have to do with Hamilton vs Rosberg? Well, they are "products" of a different educational system than some of us here, who learnt by rote. Also, they are teammates in a sport that seems to be evolving technologically, right under our noses, which means it's to their advantage to collaborate and co-operate. Both will come to "problems" in a different way; but, in seeing it from a different angle, a different solution may come to mind.

I don't believe that one is a "harder" worker than the other; I do believe they come at problems differently.
Nothing wrong with them sharing their strategies! In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest it might make them stronger!

[Roth]

Yeah, sagi, but Hamilton's not just a strong student, he's the guy who graduates uni at 12. And Nico's hardly the divvy kid. If you've made it to the top one would hope it's on skill, not by sitting next to the clever people. They're at a level where it's sink or swim. If any driver still needs help to that extent, well, he shouldn't be there.

[What's Burning?]

Since you introduced the educational analogy, allow me to interject. Today, we allow students to work together, in groups.

This is advantageous in a number of ways:
- students learn to work together collaboratively and co-operatively;
- in working together, a "stronger" student can share how they arrive at solutions;
- in explaining their strategy, the "stronger" student benefits from learning how to express/explain their solution;
- the "not so strong" student benefits from seeing how a peer arrives at a solution;
- the "not so strong" student also benefits from learning how to express/explain their strategy;
- both types of student get timely feedback from their peers;
- both have the opportunity to develop their own methodology.

All wonderfully commendable techniques to use in a school environment. However this isn't a school environment it's F1, they're professionals being paid for the services and skills they bring to the team.

- students learn to work together collaboratively and co-operatively;
I don't think Nico or Lewis need to be taught anything about working cooperatively.

- in explaining their strategy, the "stronger" student benefits from learning how to express/explain their solution;
Yes, indeed. Which is the point I've been trying to make, where does Lewis learn from Nico? There is only one WDC prize, so you're asking one driver to help the other driver beat him. I wonder how Alonso would react to helping Kimi.

- in explaining their strategy, the "stronger" student benefits from learning how to express/explain their solution;
completely irrelevant to anything going on here, they are driving fast not reading poetry and for the sake of saving some cutting and pasting, I'll skip the other two completely irrelevant points.

- both have the opportunity to develop their own methodology.
Goes back to the previous point I was making, they're professional racing drivers that are expected to bring a skill to the team not the other way around. These drivers are not rookies, they're not being limited in any way from having their own methodology, it's one driver copying the other driver's faster technique. That's not a "methodology".

Thank you though, I completely agree in a school environment... ALL are good points.

[sagi58]

... I completely agree in a school environment... ALL are good points.

So you believe that competitiveness is the ultimate teacher? That in every situation
there has to be a winner and a loser, because there is no place for team accomplishments?
That learning how to work together and putting that into effect is useless because, in the
end the world is only about the survival of the fittest?

That would explain a lot!