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[racechick]

Alonso has more strings to his bow than being a good chess player!!

[andrew]

So to get back on topic, i wasn't gonna bother getting up at 6am to watch the race today after recent races, and definitely am glad i didn't. I spent all day downloading the race so only just finished watching.

I've said it before and i'll say it again - this season is the biggest anticlimax ever, and what a massive shame that is after such an amazing first half a season. I cannot think of any other season that has ended up as disappointing as this in my entire life of watching F1.

Two real high points in this race were the monster 3-way car battles we saw, with Alonso/McLarens and the Williamses and someone else later on. Some entertaining driving there, and some brilliant stuff by those 3 world champions on the first lap.

But that just underlines how this season has sadly morphed into 2011 all over again - the odd awesome battle, but the same old stuff up front.

Rant time. I don't hate Vettel as a person, but man, he is the most boring bloody driver ever, in spite of his abilities and achievements. Qualify well, do a good couple of opening laps, then do nothing else of note during the race. So freaking boring. Still hasn't won from lower than third on the grid i believe. Even when Schumacher dominated it wasn't as bad is these Vettel domination periods - at least Schumi had that extra dimension where he could pull victories out against all odds, which was freaking admirable, unlike this monotonous ability to only be able to win easy (relatively speaking of course) races that Vettel is showing.

I thoroughly enjoy this season - I like chess games in F1 and SV is a Grand Master in F1 chess.

[spankyham]

Rant time. I don't hate Vettel as a person, but man, he is the most boring bloody driver ever, in spite of his abilities and achievements. Qualify well, do a good couple of opening laps, then do nothing else of note during the race. So freaking boring. Still hasn't won from lower than third on the grid i believe. Even when Schumacher dominated it wasn't as bad is these Vettel domination periods - at least Schumi had that extra dimension where he could pull victories out against all odds, which was freaking admirable, unlike this monotonous ability to only be able to win easy (relatively speaking of course) races that Vettel is showing.

I thoroughly enjoy this season - I like chess games in F1 and SV is a Grand Master in F1 chess.

Seems DD and Andrew have this season in the done and dusted column. Seb's done a great job, and maybe I'm being too optimistic as a devout Tifoso, but I don't think this chess game is anywhere near over.

Seb had about a 7 second lead before they'd covered about the same number of laps. The difference between him and Nando at the end of the race was less than 10 and, Seb ran out of fuel (he could not have gone any faster without risking running out). Nando was able to make it all the way to PF under his own steam. Nando was also able to put in race fastest laps towards the end. Put that into performance needs - if Ferrari can find 1 tenth over the field they will have the performance needed to win any/all of the last 3 races.

On your rant Scotty, it's definitely not against Seb, his race weekend was excellent. He did everything anyone could have expected of him. We can't blame him for leading from the front as well as he has done in the past few races. I'm quite looking forward to when he's in red. I'm especially looking forward to Vlad's posts when that news hits the forum

[darwin dali]

Rant time. I don't hate Vettel as a person, but man, he is the most boring bloody driver ever, in spite of his abilities and achievements. Qualify well, do a good couple of opening laps, then do nothing else of note during the race. So freaking boring. Still hasn't won from lower than third on the grid i believe. Even when Schumacher dominated it wasn't as bad is these Vettel domination periods - at least Schumi had that extra dimension where he could pull victories out against all odds, which was freaking admirable, unlike this monotonous ability to only be able to win easy (relatively speaking of course) races that Vettel is showing.

I thoroughly enjoy this season - I like chess games in F1 and SV is a Grand Master in F1 chess.

Seems DD and Andrew have this season in the done and dusted column. Seb's done a great job, and maybe I'm being too optimistic as a devout Tifoso, but I don't think this chess game is anywhere near over.

Seb had about a 7 second lead before they'd covered about the same number of laps. The difference between him and Nando at the end of the race was less than 10 and, Seb ran out of fuel (he could not have gone any faster without risking running out). Nando was able to make it all the way to PF under his own steam. Nando was also able to put in race fastest laps towards the end. Put that into performance needs - if Ferrari can find 1 tenth over the field they will have the performance needed to win any/all of the last 3 races.

On your rant Scotty, it's definitely not against Seb, his race weekend was excellent. He did everything anyone could have expected of him. We can't blame him for leading from the front as well as he has done in the past few races. I'm quite looking forward to when he's in red. I'm especially looking forward to Vlad's posts when that news hits the forum

What are you talking about? First of all, where did I say it's done and dusted?
Second, SV had the fastest lap during the last lap and then was beaten by FA and later JB. And who got stranded without fuel? FM of Ferrari.

[scotty]

Thing is, i just don't see at all the 'chess game' some refer to, it's not like he's ever won like Schumi did at Hungary in 1998 on that amazing tactical battle. THAT was an F1 style chess game in my book. And it wasn't even the driver's doing really! This here is just a case of having the car in qualifying (and i'm sure there can be no debate that is was the car making the difference recently) to be out of the way of being held up at all in the race at the crucial point at the start, then maximising that aspect in the first few laps, then after that, nothing out of the ordinary. If there's no REAL pressure, then no problem for Vettel it seems. I'm still waiting for that 'utterly unbelievable drive against all odds' from him.

Spanky, i can't see why you are looking forward to Vettel when you have Alonso already, especially if Ferrari continue in this position. Alonso is the freaking man in my view, he can do everything an F1 driver needs to do, and has already proved it in many areas on several occassions.

[darwin dali]

I'm still waiting for that 'utterly unbelievable drive against all odds' from him.

[scotty]

Haha, yep, i knew someone would immediately post Monza '08 and had originally written something to stop people predictably mentioning it (no offence!). But really, the STR was good there as proved by the utterly average Bourdais managing to get on the second row in quali too, surely no denying that. No pressure, no problem for Vettel in the race.

[What's Burning?]

The guy does what he does and he does it well. We've seen Seb this year at least be forced to drive the car more... he's clearly not the same caliber of driver that Lewis and Alonso are when they have to drive a car that isn't at it's best. Seb knows how to capitalize on a car that suits him and has been able to do that better than the other contenders.

He's also the best at getting out of the hole quickest and avoiding the scrum that's left behind. He won today like he generally wins when the car is the quickest. He wins the race by the time the DRS zone is enabled by being outside of it. He's then able to control the race from the front. It's the best strategy when you've got a car capable of it. Boring, yeah. Can he fight like the Alonso and Hamilton? No. But he's been in a position where he hasn't had to.

I don't like him for reasons I've stated but he's making the most of what his talent is and so far it's looking like his talent and the Red Bull machine will get him to number three.

And Spanky, I think Alonso drove a fantastic race today It was a magical first few laps, but he got where he got because Lewis made a horrible start and Button was fighting for whatever Button was fighting for and Alonso made the best of it but today's result I don't think was anything but opportunity first with Button and Lewis and then with Webber's KERS.

[spankyham]

What are you talking about? First of all, where did I say it's done and dusted?
Second, SV had the fastest lap during the last lap and then was beaten by FA and later JB. And who got stranded without fuel? FM of Ferrari.

I just took you're already calling SV the Grand Master of the "chess game" at its face value - can't be the grand master and loose I guess.

SV was fuel critical, Webber had to push his car into the final line-up ..... perhaps you missed that

[darwin dali]

What are you talking about? First of all, where did I say it's done and dusted?
Second, SV had the fastest lap during the last lap and then was beaten by FA and later JB. And who got stranded without fuel? FM of Ferrari.

I just took you're already calling SV the Grand Master of the "chess game" at its face value - can't be the grand master and loose I guess.

SV was fuel critical, Webber had to push his car into the final line-up ..... perhaps you missed that

But you apparently missed the stranded Ferrari

[spankyham]

The guy does what he does and he does it well. We've seen Seb this year at least be forced to drive the car more... he's clearly not the same caliber of driver that Lewis and Alonso are when they have to drive a car that isn't at it's best. Seb knows how to capitalize on a car that suits him and has been able to do that better than the other contenders.

He's also the best at getting out of the hole quickest and avoiding the scrum that's left behind. He won today like he generally wins when the car is the quickest. He wins the race by the time the DRS zone is enabled by being outside of it. He's then able to control the race from the front. It's the best strategy when you've got a car capable of it. Boring, yeah. Can he fight like the Alonso and Hamilton? No. But he's been in a position where he hasn't had to.

I don't like him for reasons I've stated but he's making the most of what his talent is and so far it's looking like his talent and the Red Bull machine will get him to number three.

And Spanky, I think Alonso drove a fantastic race today It was a magical first few laps, but he got where he got because Lewis made a horrible start and Button was fighting for whatever Button was fighting for and Alonso made the best of it but today's result I don't think was anything but opportunity first with Button and Lewis and then with Webber's KERS.

Well summed up on Alonso's drive. He put himself in the right positions to take advantage when the opportunities arose. On top of that he really drove a clever and fast race. His lap times were consistently there or thereabouts with the fastest. In terms of the F2012, Nando was able, even towards the end of the race, to register fastest lap, the car is competitive. My own opinion is in Q it is about .5 off the best and in race trim maybe .1. If the team can get their DDRS sorted that could make things very interesting. I just don't see much difference at all between the McLarens and Ferraris now, perhaps the Macca's have the edge in Q while the Ferrari's have the edge in race trim - the the differences are very small.

I guess I'm a bigger fan of Seb than you, I really felt he drove an excellent race and controlled things really well given his position. Having said that, IMO, he hasn't yet shown the skill of a Nando or Lewis in being able to get more out of a slightly under-performing car. You only have to look back to this year before the last four races - that gives you a clear picture of his skill when placed in a car that isn't the fastest on track. But I also think he is good enough to improve in that department.

[spankyham]

What are you talking about? First of all, where did I say it's done and dusted?
Second, SV had the fastest lap during the last lap and then was beaten by FA and later JB. And who got stranded without fuel? FM of Ferrari.

I just took you're already calling SV the Grand Master of the "chess game" at its face value - can't be the grand master and loose I guess.

SV was fuel critical, Webber had to push his car into the final line-up ..... perhaps you missed that

But you apparently missed the stranded Ferrari

Not really, but Felipe, as happy as I am with his improved form, isn't in contention for the Grand Master title this year.

[darwin dali]

Oct.27 (GMM) Bernie Ecclestone has tipped Sebastian Vettel to achieve Michael Schumacher-like success in formula one.

Back-to-back world champion Vettel is now on a roll in 2012, having overtaken Fernando Alonso's title lead and dominant in India, where converting his pole position on Sunday will mean a fourth-consecutive race win.

"Vettel is close to a hat-trick of championships and he has all the capability to finish his career with seven or more titles," said the Red Bull driver's rival and countryman Timo Glock.

Schumacher, to retire at the end of the season, has F1's outright records for wins (91) and titles (7).

Vettel is on course for a third title in 2012, while victory on Sunday will be the 26th in his five-season career.

"He (Vettel) is talented, focused and hungry to do well," Glock told India's Deccan Chronicle, "and with this form there is no reason why he can't match or surpass Schumacher."

Vettel's friend and backgammon partner Ecclestone, F1's 81-year-old chief executive, agrees that the 25-year-old is on the path to Schumacher-like greatness.

"I see no reason why Seb can't go on to achieve what Michael Schumacher has achieved in this sport, which is unsurpassed," Ecclestone told the Guardian in India.

"And Seb is up against much tougher opposition than Michael was. He's very honest. He's very dedicated. And he's very talented. He has made sure that he's exploited his capabilities to the maximum."

[andrew]

Rant time. I don't hate Vettel as a person, but man, he is the most boring bloody driver ever, in spite of his abilities and achievements. Qualify well, do a good couple of opening laps, then do nothing else of note during the race. So freaking boring. Still hasn't won from lower than third on the grid i believe. Even when Schumacher dominated it wasn't as bad is these Vettel domination periods - at least Schumi had that extra dimension where he could pull victories out against all odds, which was freaking admirable, unlike this monotonous ability to only be able to win easy (relatively speaking of course) races that Vettel is showing.

I thoroughly enjoy this season - I like chess games in F1 and SV is a Grand Master in F1 chess.

Seems DD and Andrew have this season in the done and dusted column. Seb's done a great job, and maybe I'm being too optimistic as a devout Tifoso, but I don't think this chess game is anywhere near over.

I wouldn't say that anything is done and dusted.

[LRW]

Oct.27 (GMM) Bernie Ecclestone has tipped Sebastian Vettel to achieve Michael Schumacher-like success in formula one.

Back-to-back world champion Vettel is now on a roll in 2012, having overtaken Fernando Alonso's title lead and dominant in India, where converting his pole position on Sunday will mean a fourth-consecutive race win.

"Vettel is close to a hat-trick of championships and he has all the capability to finish his career with seven or more titles," said the Red Bull driver's rival and countryman Timo Glock.

Schumacher, to retire at the end of the season, has F1's outright records for wins (91) and titles (7).

Vettel is on course for a third title in 2012, while victory on Sunday will be the 26th in his five-season career.

"He (Vettel) is talented, focused and hungry to do well," Glock told India's Deccan Chronicle, "and with this form there is no reason why he can't match or surpass Schumacher."

Vettel's friend and backgammon partner Ecclestone, F1's 81-year-old chief executive, agrees that the 25-year-old is on the path to Schumacher-like greatness.

"I see no reason why Seb can't go on to achieve what Michael Schumacher has achieved in this sport, which is unsurpassed," Ecclestone told the Guardian in India.

"And Seb is up against much tougher opposition than Michael was. He's very honest. He's very dedicated. And he's very talented. He has made sure that he's exploited his capabilities to the maximum."

DD - Are you using a BE quote to try to back up your side of the discussion.....? I expected more of you.....