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[sagi58]

Mannheim, cara, Mannheim

Ho sbagliato di nuovo?

Yes and no: the original already had the error in it...

So... I'm an accessory after the fact?

[CookinFlat6]

Whilst we can speculate, I really don't think we can "know" anything much. At various times I read stories about Ferrari, Renault and Merc all having problems with their engine developments.

As to budgets I also don't think that is the be-all and end-all of the competition (most of you know I hate caps and restrictions). My understanding is the Merc has a team of over 400 working on their 2014 F1 engine. For Ferrari I've read its about 100, I don't know about Renault. But I'm sure they will all produce a decent F1 engine within the rules and I'm also sure no-one can know, at this point in time, which will end up being the winner

What I can see is that this particular reported issue - that of integration of third party components, points to a clear disadvantage of not being a fully integrated manufacturer. So RBR are now finding that they sit potentially behind Merc and Ferrari when it comes to best prepared.

Renault are not a team, they are an engine supplier. They will make an engine and sell it to customers to recoup the cost. There is no incentive to spend in excess of that mandate. Merc and Ferrari on the other hand can spend what they think is needed to allow their teams to win.

RBR cannot force Renault to spend as much as the others just for the glory of winning. RBR are therefore limited in how much money they can throw and the other 2 are not. Its likey Merc have spent the most, the number of staff they have employed across both operations is not a secret. And its going to be during the period before the freeze that the best staff will earn their wages.

Just by money spent and advantages in integration and packaging, on paper Merc should be the best, followed by Ferrari and Renault a distant third. Lets see if Ferrari or Renault can buck the trend of 'most money spent = best result' The F1 teams of RBR have been doing so as well as Merc but not Ferrari. Lets see how the powertrain teams place on the spend/result curve

[racechick]

I've a question. I don't completely understand the technical implications of the new engines, but this is what I've been wondering in my simplistic way.
I've heard that the Merc engine is quite a bit more powerful than the others but that it won't be able to put that extra power down because of the tyres( which is why Merc wanted bigger fatter ones) . So assuming they have say 10 % more power than the others but don't use it, does that mean

A) they can run away from the maximum and therefore be more reliable?

B) when the engine freeze comes will they have that 10% to dib into?

Just some thoughts. Can some more technical minds tell me if I'm on the right lines or way wide of the mark ?

[spankyham]

RC, my 2 bobs worth is that there is simply no way anyone could possibly speculate that one is X% more powerful that another, and what sort of "more powerful" are we talking about - peaks or bands, hp or what?

If one engine is more powerful, I don't know that it would equate to either better reliability or even being faster over a full race distance.

No matter what happens in year one, the FiA will do their best to take away any advantage an engine maker creates through the engine freeze/equalization scheme. The same way they did with the current engine.

I have a suspicion that economy will be the focus - boring but possible.

[racechick]

Ok thanks for that. Perhaps I was doing a little wishful thinking

[Jabberwocky]

I've a question. I don't completely understand the technical implications of the new engines, but this is what I've been wondering in my simplistic way.
I've heard that the Merc engine is quite a bit more powerful than the others but that it won't be able to put that extra power down because of the tyres( which is why Merc wanted bigger fatter ones) . So assuming they have say 10 % more power than the others but don't use it, does that mean

A) they can run away from the maximum and therefore be more reliable?

B) when the engine freeze comes will they have that 10% to dib into?

Just some thoughts. Can some more technical minds tell me if I'm on the right lines or way wide of the mark ?

if it is to be believed that mercs are more powerful then what you have said is true. I just find it hard for anyone to know at this point who has the most power, who has the most torque, and I would imagine more importantly, the most drive able engine.

[spankyham]

Ok thanks for that. Perhaps I was doing a little wishful thinking

Well, its not to say Merc wont have the most powerful engine in 2014, I just don't believe there is any way of knowing at this stage. Not too long to find out though

[CookinFlat6]

I've a question. I don't completely understand the technical implications of the new engines, but this is what I've been wondering in my simplistic way.
I've heard that the Merc engine is quite a bit more powerful than the others but that it won't be able to put that extra power down because of the tyres( which is why Merc wanted bigger fatter ones) . So assuming they have say 10 % more power than the others but don't use it, does that mean

A) they can run away from the maximum and therefore be more reliable?

B) when the engine freeze comes will they have that 10% to dib into?

Just some thoughts. Can some more technical minds tell me if I'm on the right lines or way wide of the mark ?

The only real info we have, and that all the reasonable speculation is based upon is the request each maker has submitted to change the formula. Assuming a maker would not request a change for sandbagging reasons, then if one asks for larger rear tyres to handle the torque it safe to assume they need it, if one needs the minimum weight increased, then its likely they need it, if one asks for more fuel flow etc etc. Its well documented what each maker has requested and they have all been vetoed by at least one other maker.

The engine freeze comes in about a month after the season starts, meaning they cannot change the engine till year end, but can ofcourse develop in the meantime. Therefore its the first month that the makers have to pull all their fingers out to catch up with any runaway leader, and is therefore 'showtime' proper

So far the most alarming request IMHO is from Renault to delay the launch of the first test, as it can only mean they dont think they will even have a competitive engine ready.

no one knows what will happen, but the clues are all there

[Jabberwocky]

I heard Cosworth are asking for an extra 2 cylinders

[CookinFlat6]

Cosworth 'its all been a big mistake, can we please continue with the V8s?'

[1Lemon]

:rofl:
Cosworth 'its all been a big mistake, can we please continue with the V8s?'

'Better yet, we liked the V10s'

[What's Burning?]

Good read on the 2014 power units over on ESPNF1. The excerpt below has some pretty interesting details, the way it reads, they expect that perhaps 50% of performance gained during the season will come from optimizing software to optimally intersect with an engine that may not be on the grid in Melbourne.

ESPNF1Unlocking performance
Although there was a development freeze on the old V8s, manufacturers were still tinkering with software last season to get as much performance as possible from the engines. Despite all the new hardware for 2014, once again it will be the software engineers pushing the boundaries all season long.

Taffin: "The software is going to be the key factor for performance. You could run the engines next year in a very simple way but it's not going to be efficient. The software will again be key and we will need these things to work, because if they are not working to plan then when you get in the race it will be hurting lap time quite a lot. The hardware is frozen by March 1 when we give the specification to the FIA and the software will be the one thing where we can keep developing into the season. That is where we are going to get the performance out of it, because we have a certain type of hardware that we will anticipate we will be running at one point, but maybe when we get to Melbourne we will not be right there. Then you will see performance developing through the season and maybe 50% will be coming from the way we manage this."

Also interesting that Ferrari is the only manufacturer to not yet release an official image of their power unit. Mercedes' official release doesn't include the headers.

[spankyham]

Ferrari did show their engine to a select few from the media, but banned cameras and recorders - that's where the sketch of their engine came from. One of the few who actually got to see it.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Jabberwocky]

Have I missed the sketch?

Sent using NCC-1701

[What's Burning?]

Ferrari did show their engine to a select few from the media, but banned cameras and recorders - that's where the sketch of their engine came from. One of the few who actually got to see it.

That's why I said not an official image. That sketch hardly counts.

I'm really curious to know why Renault encased their headers in carbon fiber. Also interesting that the Merc turbo seems to only have one exhaust feed. I'm sure these are all games they're playing.