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[Hammer278]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

Yeah, with a completely revamped car pulled out of parc ferme conditions. Lewis had his car fixed up based only on safety grounds, no performance added with setup changes, etc. But props to Vettel anyway ending up 3rd (was it 3rd, I can't recall) it's never easy to find your way through an entire grid of cars.

[What's Burning?]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

In Abu Dhabi, With a reconfigured car to suit the Sunday race environment if I recall, having been DSQ for low fuel instead of going to the back for a brake failure leading to a 27G shunt. Vettel did start in 24th place instead of 20th like Lewis. Hamilton, Webber and Grossjean all out that day, making his 3rd place a little easier to attain. Kimi went on to Win that race, so Renault was on it.

[Roth]

Talk about knee jerkism

Many criticized Lewis after the Silverstone quali, who has booed Nico in this thread? And there is no point coming on here just to be contrary to the factual evidence. This race the factual evidence is that Lewis drove a fanatsic race and didnt come second because of ""bad luck"" with safety car, and bad luck with miscommunication (not race craft, or eagerness) with Button about his intentions

If you gonna turn up and say he was ragged, over eager and desperate you gotta at least put up a baked argument, thats all anyone wants, if you dont wanna turn up to say Lewis is great, great, but dont put the guy down just because of his supporters or just because...

Ok Lewis was not great this race? why? because of a misunderstanding with another driver - lets forget overtaking 16 others without issue

In a reply to RyRy I covered some points of his over-eagerness. Also when I use a word like 'bit' it's not for padding. It's because I want people to be aware of my intentions. If you ignore the quantifying word it makes the rest completely out of context. You do this all the time. You sort of gloss over my replies and just reply again to what you think you read the first time, maybe with a slightly modified point where I've called you on something, like your constant denegrating and counter productive jabs of Button. This is not new news. Your reply here is a perfect example.

What you call 'bad luck' with the safety car, implying it's all some plot, is really Hamilton fanboys getting it into their heads that the world is out to get him. Now, I'm not religious but have encountered many religious people who pull the old 'Well how can you prove he doesn't' line. Like if I can't refute the argument, then he must exist. Pick your poison - aliens, JFK, it all boils down to the same thing. This is the terriotory we're straying into. I'm kinda, well, if you want to tie yourself up in knots about it, go crackers. Me, I'd rather see if Hamilton could have done better on track and not start blaming the world at large. Looking for blame is a victim's approach and it's not healthy. You don't want to start sounding like Massa.

It wasn't a miscommunication with Button. He got it wrong. Only slightly but it cost him. He admitted that. He was lucky against Kimi in a similar situation and Sutil hit him because although Hamilton's was a great move there's an inherent danger in moving into a blind spot where a driver isn't expecting you. Just ask Mag. There's a difference between racing to win and racing to win at all costs. I mentioned earlier in the thread consolidation isn't his strong point, and perhaps that need to take two drivers in one go could be tempered a bit considering what's at stake.

And no, nobody booed Nico on this thread. I apologise for not making it explicit that I meant the forum in general. Where people boo. All the time. And yes sometimes they say nice things. I'm aware of that too. But mostly they boo. And by 'boo' I'm encompassing all remarks both overtly and passively against his character and driving skills. It's a general word, forgive my lazyness.

[Roth]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

In Abu Dhabi, With a reconfigured car to suit the Sunday race environment if I recall, having been DSQ for low fuel instead of going to the back for a brake failure leading to a 27G shunt. Vettel did start in 24th place instead of 20th like Lewis. Hamilton, Webber and Grossjean all out that day, making his 3rd place a little easier to attain. Kimi went on to Win that race, so Renault was on it.

This comes across as you putting Vettel's achievements down for whatever reason when there's a lot of similarities.

[1Lemon]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

In Abu Dhabi, With a reconfigured car to suit the Sunday race environment if I recall, having been DSQ for low fuel instead of going to the back for a brake failure leading to a 27G shunt. Vettel did start in 24th place instead of 20th like Lewis. Hamilton, Webber and Grossjean all out that day, making his 3rd place a little easier to attain. Kimi went on to Win that race, so Renault was on it.

But they are incredibly similar situations, trying to put down Vettels but bigging up Hamilton's is slightly strange.

Vettel didn't even start on the grid and he couldn't leave the pit lane until the last car has past meaning he's already way back.

In Germany Massa, Grosjean, Kyvat AND Sutil all retired making his 3rd place a little easier to attain.

Rosberg went on to win that race by a wide margin, more than Kimi was ahead, so Mercedes were on it and have a far more dominant car than Vettel ever did (Especially in 2012).

Yes the car was reconfigured to be a race pace setup but he didn't get a nice fresh Gearbox like Lewis did.

[What's Burning?]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

In Abu Dhabi, With a reconfigured car to suit the Sunday race environment if I recall, having been DSQ for low fuel instead of going to the back for a brake failure leading to a 27G shunt. Vettel did start in 24th place instead of 20th like Lewis. Hamilton, Webber and Grossjean all out that day, making his 3rd place a little easier to attain. Kimi went on to Win that race, so Renault was on it.

This comes across as you putting Vettel's achievements down for whatever reason when there's a lot of similarities.

Don't you put Hamilton's efforts down regardless? The glaring difference and the one thing you neglected to mention in your "analysis" of how poorly he carved his way through the field was the previous day's 27G accident. So my assessment that three cars that would have finished ahead of him is a fair observation to say the least. The only car that would have had a chance to finish ahead of Lewis would have been Massa. A like for like comparison.

[1Lemon]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

In Abu Dhabi, With a reconfigured car to suit the Sunday race environment if I recall, having been DSQ for low fuel instead of going to the back for a brake failure leading to a 27G shunt. Vettel did start in 24th place instead of 20th like Lewis. Hamilton, Webber and Grossjean all out that day, making his 3rd place a little easier to attain. Kimi went on to Win that race, so Renault was on it.

This comes across as you putting Vettel's achievements down for whatever reason when there's a lot of similarities.

Don't you put Hamilton's efforts down regardless? The glaring difference and the one thing you neglected to mention in your "analysis" of how poorly he carved his way through the field was the previous day's 27G accident. So my assessment that three cars that would have finished ahead of him is a fair observation to say the least. The only car that would have had a chance to finish ahead of Lewis would have been Massa. A like for like comparison.

I honestly don't get why people keep thinking I don't like Lewis and want to always put him down; maybe it's because I'm not a diehard fan for him and therefore am a heathen. If you noticed I didn't put anyones achievements down, they were both sterling drives by two very good drivers who gave it their all to get as high as possible. When did I say he was poorly going through the field, yes he made some mistakes but IIRC so did Vettel, anyone will when passing that number of cars. Take the Ham-blinkers off and see that I wasn't putting anyone down, just saying it wasn't the greatest drive in human history, and is not any kind of record as Hammer suggested.

[What's Burning?]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

In Abu Dhabi, With a reconfigured car to suit the Sunday race environment if I recall, having been DSQ for low fuel instead of going to the back for a brake failure leading to a 27G shunt. Vettel did start in 24th place instead of 20th like Lewis. Hamilton, Webber and Grossjean all out that day, making his 3rd place a little easier to attain. Kimi went on to Win that race, so Renault was on it.

This comes across as you putting Vettel's achievements down for whatever reason when there's a lot of similarities.

Don't you put Hamilton's efforts down regardless? The glaring difference and the one thing you neglected to mention in your "analysis" of how poorly he carved his way through the field was the previous day's 27G accident. So my assessment that three cars that would have finished ahead of him is a fair observation to say the least. The only car that would have had a chance to finish ahead of Lewis would have been Massa. A like for like comparison.

I honestly don't get why people keep thinking I don't like Lewis and want to always put him down; maybe it's because I'm not a diehard fan for him and therefore am a heathen. If you noticed I didn't put anyones achievements down, they were both sterling drives by two very good drivers who gave it their all to get as high as possible. When did I say he was poorly going through the field, yes he made some mistakes but IIRC so did Vettel, anyone will when passing that number of cars. Take the Ham-blinkers off and see that I wasn't putting anyone down, just saying it wasn't the greatest drive in human history, and is not any kind of record as Hammer suggested.

You stay out of it Lemony, my response was directed at Roth, I think when I described Vettel's performance that day it was a relatively objective comparison.

And don't give me that crap... you're a heathen despite not being a Hamilton fan.

[Ichabod]

When was the last time a driver came from 20th on the grid to 3rd or better in a BONE DRY RACE.

Regardless of car dominance, that has to be some sort of a record already.

Didn't vettel do that from the pit Lane in 2012?

Only with the help of 2 safety cars though ( I think ? )

[Roth]

Don't you put Hamilton's efforts down regardless? The glaring difference and the one thing you neglected to mention in your "analysis" of how poorly he carved his way through the field was the previous day's 27G accident. So my assessment that three cars that would have finished ahead of him is a fair observation to say the least. The only car that would have had a chance to finish ahead of Lewis would have been Massa. A like for like comparison.

If all you ever want to take from my posts are the points where I point out he wasn't perfect and ignore the rest, that's your choice. I said he drove a good race. It's all there in whichever style you've got the site set up in. Otherwise it's just a circle jerk. Paul Rand, a true great in the graphic design field, when he taught at Yale would walk straight past the good work and make everybody else cry with his criticism. When asked why, he said, 'if it's good, what do you want me to say?'

Patronise me all you want, I'm not much bothered, but the guy's a work in progress, we all are. He does stuff wrong. He has weaknesses. Let's not perhaps act like schoolkids but vaguely mature adults who can see him as a separate identity to ourselves and that if I criticise this relative stranger, then I'm not criticising you and your ideals. This is how I treat it. I enjoy my little ding dongs with cookie, but some others are just fanboys and that's for the birds.

You're the only one mentioning the 27G. Quite a lot. Did I miss the part where Hamilton did? Or anybody? I mean as a serious impediment to his driving, not just he was a bit sore? Otherwise it's a moot point.

[What's Burning?]

Don't you put Hamilton's efforts down regardless? The glaring difference and the one thing you neglected to mention in your "analysis" of how poorly he carved his way through the field was the previous day's 27G accident. So my assessment that three cars that would have finished ahead of him is a fair observation to say the least. The only car that would have had a chance to finish ahead of Lewis would have been Massa. A like for like comparison.

If all you ever want to take from my posts are the points where I point out he wasn't perfect and ignore the rest, that's your choice. I said he drove a good race. It's all there in whichever style you've got the site set up in. Otherwise it's just a circle jerk. Paul Rand, a true great in the graphic design field, when he taught at Yale would walk straight past the good work and make everybody else cry with his criticism. When asked why, he said, 'if it's good, what do you want me to say?'

Patronise me all you want, I'm not much bothered, but the guy's a work in progress, we all are. He does stuff wrong. He has weaknesses. Let's not perhaps act like schoolkids but vaguely mature adults who can see him as a separate identity to ourselves and that if I criticise this relative stranger, then I'm not criticising you and your ideals. This is how I treat it. I enjoy my little ding dongs with cookie, but some others are just fanboys and that's for the birds.

You're the only one mentioning the 27G. Quite a lot. Did I miss the part where Hamilton did? Or anybody? I mean as a serious impediment to his driving, not just he was a bit sore? Otherwise it's a moot point.

I had a lengthy discussion yesterday about Button where I characterized Hamilton's performance as he was supposed to do that, everyone picked him for 2~4 in the pool and so their expectations are very similar to mine. The critisms as to the way he did it is your opinion rather than fact. You're allowed it, but since you do bring up his sloppiness in the process, I felt it fair to bring up the shunt. They're both things that apparently are irrelevant, yet you brought up the irrelevant factor.

It's not a circle jerk, that's what you'd like it to be. It's a discussion about the facts and mental weakness and sloppiness are not facts. The fact that he got from 20th on the grid to 3rd and limited his losses is a fact.

So we either have a factual discussion or a discussion about our opinions, you can't mix and match, and your opinion that he was sloppy doesn't trump the result as much as you'd like. You were very silent during Hamilton's four win run, I suspect you'll be just as silent should he do it again. Believe me, we've seen a lot of haterz fall by the wayside and their "reasoned" arguments all tend to unravel themselves in the face of the outcome. Let's have the conversation again in November.

[Hammer278]

Don't you put Hamilton's efforts down regardless? The glaring difference and the one thing you neglected to mention in your "analysis" of how poorly he carved his way through the field was the previous day's 27G accident. So my assessment that three cars that would have finished ahead of him is a fair observation to say the least. The only car that would have had a chance to finish ahead of Lewis would have been Massa. A like for like comparison.

Patronise me all you want, I'm not much bothered, but the guy's a work in progress, we all are. He does stuff wrong. He has weaknesses. Let's not perhaps act like schoolkids but vaguely mature adults who can see him as a separate identity to ourselves and that if I criticise this relative stranger, then I'm not criticising you and your ideals. This is how I treat it. I enjoy my little ding dongs with cookie, but some others are just fanboys and that's for the birds.

You're the only one mentioning the 27G. Quite a lot. Did I miss the part where Hamilton did? Or anybody? I mean as a serious impediment to his driving, not just he was a bit sore? Otherwise it's a moot point.

The guy's a work in progress alright, but when you spit out opinions without actual facts or reasoning to back them up you're gonna get called out by vaguely mature adults. And since you do spend a significant time assessing this relative stranger, it shows you do pay quite a bit of attention to his 'work in progress' aka strengths/weaknesses.

I recall your name from quite some time back but its funny how you've suddenly piped up since Hamilton has gotten into this bad run and most your posts are highlighting Hamiltons 'weaknesses' (without actual reasoning/facts) these days. What's the deal. You don't dislike Hamilton at all but you spend a lot of energy highlighting his apparent 'mental weakness', 'rash driving', and what not...it's curious behaviour. Disturbing even. Who's fan are you of exactly? Or do you just pick on a driver or create baseless arguments to get noticed?

And one last question.... you mention some others are just fanboys, who exactly would you be referring to here if I may ask. People defending the driver from baseless opinions? Or questions they pose which you just can't answer so you choose to ignore and put a label on them to cover yourself. Like you did with the sexist comment on the other thread about Wolff, and later "I forgot to put smilies" that one was a laugh.

[What's Burning?]

RC is a fan girl!

[LRW]

Girls??? Here in the Forum?? Why are they not in the Kitchen cooking my bloody tea??

[Hammer278]

Girls??? Here in the Forum?? Why are they not in the Kitchen cooking my bloody tea??

If you actually COOK your bloody tea, you need some girls to show you how to make tea.