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[racechick]

I don't hate Vettel. I find him quite a pleasant, sociable and intelligent guy out of the car. But whether I or anyone else hates him or not is nothing to do with his team not wishing to pitch him against a top driver.

As to why it seems he is generally unpopular, I doubt it's because he's German, Rosberg is German and popular.
I'd say its to do with some of the following

. Multi 21
. Protected by Marco
. Webber is popular and people think he is not treated fairly
. Not fought against a world champion team mate
. Always had the best car
. His finger

P.s. There's no way I'll throw the book at you for expressing your view, your perfectly entitled, it's what a forum is for

[Zekenwolf]

I don't hate Vettel. I find him quite a pleasant, sociable and intelligent guy out of the car. But whether I or anyone else hates him or not is nothing to do with his team not wishing to pitch him against a top driver.

As to why it seems he is generally unpopular, I doubt it's because he's German, Rosberg is German and popular.
I'd say its to do with some of the following

. Multi 21
. Protected by Marco
. Webber is popular and people think he is not treated fairly
. Not fought against a world champion team mate
. Always had the best car
. His finger

P.s. There's no way I'll throw the book at you for expressing your view, your perfectly entitled, it's what a forum is for

OK, let us look at these points that you made.

. Multi 21 - Naughty yes, but I doubt very much if people were really upset because Vettel ignored a Red Bull team order - most don't care two hoots for the RBR establishment. It was because Vettel went on to win the race that all that business started. If it had been Hamilton on Rosberg, the reaction would have been very different and you know it. Furthermore, Webber had done that before and at the start of the Brazilian GP in 2012 nearly drove Vettel off the road when the latter was fighting for the WDC. Before you start to deny it, please watch the start of the race on video and then ask yourself. (On a personal note, I hate team orders with a passion and that particular one was totally uncalled for so early in the season)

. Protected by Marco - And why not? Vettel burst into the scene winning in the rain in an unfancied Toro Rosso and kept-up his promise once promoted to the senior team. He is young, talented and committed. Such F1 drivers do not grow on trees and so Marko is naturally keen to keep him in the team for as long as I can. Certainly, the 'protection' that Vettel gets at RBR is not a fraction of the patronage that Hamilton used to receive from Papa Denis and Uncle Whitmarsh at McLaren. Alonso should know, although he now chooses to forget it, faced with another 'enemy'. One only sees what they want to see.

. Webber is popular and people think he is not treated fairly - I am sorry but I don't buy it. People usually think what suits their impressions. We do not know what was behind the Silverstone 2010 incident (Webber won that race anyway) but Webber has got results (including some race wins) that reflect his overall talent and that's that. Webber is nowhere as good as Vettel and so don't blame the team for his poor starts of sudden lapses of concentration. The team treat him quite all right and all the BS conspiracy theories about Webber's KERS curse (pun intended) is nonsense. Webber is a very good driver but definitely not WDC material.

. Not fought against a world champion team mate - And whose fault is that? Vettel can only race against what is in front of him. Alonso apparently has a clause in his contract that vetoes Vettel joining him and circumstances till now gave no opportunity for Vettel to race against a former champion. RBR have a young driver programme which Vettel himself was once part of and so I don't see anything unusual in Ricciardo's choice. But I admit it would have been better if it had been Raikkonen. It is my belief that in 2016 Vettel will join either Mercedes or Ferrari with Hamilton or Alonso. We will see then.

. Always had the best car - A matter of opinion. The best car is always the one that is driven best. in 2009 the Brawn was easily the 'best' car but Vettel nearly caught Button towards the end of the season. The 2010 McLaren was more than good enough to beat the Red Bull - and did on may races - but at the end of the season Vettel won fair and square. Admittedly, the RB7 in 2011 was a world beater and the results showed. In 2012 the RB8 was significantly worse than the McLaren and Ferrari for the first two thirds of the season (especially in the wet) and then just about even. Its lack of speed on fast tracks showed-up more than once, especially at the US Grand Prix where Hamilton's McLaren was clocked 18 kph faster in the straight than Vettel's Red Bull. No one can overcome that big a handicap.

. His finger

[racechick]

I'm not saying those are my reasons why Vettel was booed, I'm offering them as reasons why others may have booed. When brundle asked a load of fans why they booed at Monza the vast majority said Multi 21.

You mentioned Hamilton and Rosberg. Neither disobeyed team orders and neither have been booed when they won.

[Zekenwolf]

You have to look at this anti-Vettel feeling in the right perspective. You know as well as I do that he has not said or done a miniscule fraction of anything that what some of the most beloved and revered F1 drivers of the past had. Even among his contemporaries he comes across as one of the good guys.

The anti-Vettel bandwagon started LONG before 'Multi-21', which people quote simply because it is something that they can remember at moment's notice. Somehow, the overall Vettel dislike has become a contagious mob reaction - a 'join the crowd' thing. This phenomenon is quite common among us humans and history is full of examples to illustrate it. People who are individually perfectly nice, rational and logical - and I am sure that the majority of those who do NOT like Vettel fall into that group - can easily get sucked into an expanding maelstrom of passion against something relatively harmless. To some extent, that is what has happened with Sebastian Vettel. It now seems almost fashionable to dislike and criticise him for no obvious reason and anyone who thinks otherwise is considered as an anomaly. In London you can get Vettel T-shirts depicting him with a toothbrush moustache and a swastika on the shoulder, for God's sake!

The fallout of this will be....already is that he will gradually become hardened to all that stupid booing, derogatory comments and unfair criticisms and respond by putting an even greater effort into his job. Just so that it will frustrate and get under the skins of all his pointless haters, I really hope that he succeeds many more times.

[LRW]

I don't really have anything against him personally. I just dont like one driver dominating. It makes the sport boring. In my opinion.

It was the same with Schumacher. When he dominated, I drifted, and only came back in 2007.

[Zekenwolf]

I don't really have anything against him personally. I just dont like one driver dominating. It makes the sport boring. In my opinion.

It was the same with Schumacher. When he dominated, I drifted, and only came back in 2007.

Fair comment. But if you were in Vettel's position and were able to win more often and more regularly than anyone else for whatever reason, would you be prepared to let-up because the fans don't like it?

[1Lemon]

I don't dislike vettel. I like him as a guy. I don't dislike the team, huge respect in the way RBR turned around. I don't dislike the way vettel drives but I do dislike the way seb wins. Too commanding and no fun to watch.

[sagi58]

I don't really have anything against him personally. I just dont like one driver dominating. It makes the sport boring. In my opinion.

It was the same with Schumacher. When he dominated, I drifted, and only came back in 2007.

Granted! BUT, what if the shoe was on the other foot?
What if it was YOUR favourite driver/team "dominating",
would you be bored?

[LRW]

I don't really have anything against him personally. I just dont like one driver dominating. It makes the sport boring. In my opinion.

It was the same with Schumacher. When he dominated, I drifted, and only came back in 2007.

Fair comment. But if you were in Vettel's position and were able to win more often and more regularly than anyone else for whatever reason, would you be prepared to let-up because the fans don't like it?

No. And I dont think Vettel should let up either, thats crazy.

Granted! BUT, what if the shoe was on the other foot?
What if it was YOUR favourite driver/team "dominating",
would you be bored?

Bored? Probably after 4 years of it, yeah.

[What's Burning?]

Everyone is allowed their own opinion Zekenwolf, don't take it personally. I don't like Vettel's style on the track for reasons I've states many times here before. He seems like a nice guy off the track and in the times I've seen him on shows like top gear he seems funny and likeable.

In your response to LRW you state opinions and some facts that while valid, also completely ignore the other side of the coin on may aspects. It's been beaten to death in these threads. I don't know if Ricciardo's mettle is enough, we'll see.

But one question, if and when Vettle does come up against a teammate like Alonso, or Like Hamilton as is beaten, are you prepared to re-evaluate your opinions? Because what I find is that the majority of Vettel fans as just as diffusional about him and they claim the fans of other drivers are. It's just the nature of the word "fan". Every fan points to Vettels successes in a "mid field" Toro Rosso, but that car in the right conditions was a sharp end machine, and it wasn't just Vettel that drove it fast, but Buemi was performing solidly with it as well, so let's put it into perspective.

I've never been a fan of the Scuderia because of their philosophy and their tactics, but with Alonso driving for them, last year for example. You saw the value a driver can bring to a team. When the car is not at its best, Alonso would always manage a way to deliver results and it's what kept the championship alive until the last race on the calendar. I've seen time and time again, when the car is not to his linking, Vettel struggles massively, gets impatient, and makes mistakes and we've seen him often fold under pressure. Atleast two of his soon to be 4 championship would have gone the other way if not for lady luck. No slight to Vettel, but it happens often. The championship in 2007, 2008, 2010 and 2012 could have easily gone in another direction if it wasn't for lady luck, so nothing against Vettel. There are a lot of championship caliber drivers when they drive a championship caliber car. What's clear about Vettel is that he's a better driver in a Red Bull than Webber, there's nothing concrete beyond that.

Simply an opinion, but time will tell. BTW, I'm prepared to give Vettel credit, when his credit is due and he's had some very solid races that show why he's been in a position to win his championships.

[Zekenwolf]

Everyone is allowed their own opinion Zekenwolf, don't take it personally.
But one question, if and when Vettle does come up against a teammate like Alonso, or Like Hamilton as is beaten, are you prepared to re-evaluate your opinions?

First, I'll answer that question.....Yes, IF that happens I will revaluate my opinion of him as a driver.

But if the converse happens and Vettel beats that teammate will you revaluate yours? You might, but a lot of others will come up with exotic excuses and conspiracy theories.

But until one or the other happens, your opinion is no more valid than mine. Both are speculations and just like you refuse to accept the Monza 2008, Abu Dhabi 2012 as evidence, I can attach no value to McLaren 2007 or 2010.

Ah, Vettel's 'luck'....I have heard that one before. No one can always be at the better end of lady luck that often and repeatedly. Perhaps other forces are at work alongside? Like talent for example?

And you're right that when the car's set-up does not suit him, Vettel struggles massively......but so does everyone else. (If you have the DVD of the 2007 F1 season, please check how Alonso fared in the wet races. Unlike while driving the Renault before and Ferrari after, he never seemed to like driving the McLaren in the wet. And earlier in this season the Merc's tyre handling did not suit Hamilton). One sees what one wants to see.

I have to point out that in 2012 Vettel managed to 'struggle' to the WDC. Before you mention Hamilton's DNFs, please take note that Vettel had them too - while leading the race in Valencia and the alternator failure later in the season.

Finally, the ethos of my previous posts was not about Vettel's driving merits in comparison to the other two but of the ridiculous dislike that is directed at him. If Vettel had been involved in 'crashgate' or lied to the stewards, he would probably have been crucified (in F1 terms) by now.

[What's Burning?]

I take one exception... comparing Hamilton's lying to the stewards, (being told by his team to do it no less) and the "crashgate" incident is like comparing a grape to a beach ball.

[Zekenwolf]

I take one exception... comparing Hamilton's lying to the stewards, (being told by his team to do it no less) and the "crashgate" incident is like comparing a grape to a beach ball.

I wasn't comparing them to each other but speculating the reaction of the media, fans (and probably two-thirds of the world's population by the looks of it) if one or both of them had involved Vettel instead of Hamilton and/or Alonso.

[racechick]

I'd also say the DNF's in 2012 were overwhelming worse for Hamilton.....I'm including in that the underfuelling, being sent out TWICE with a broken suspension and botched pitstops. I'm not including crap strategies.

[LRW]

Wow Zeken you seem really angry about it all. I wouldn't let it worry you. As long as you know he is a good driver and he entertains you, why worry about what all the other haters think...?