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#63628
I too think this was a harsh decision & is no good for the sport in general.
But there have been some points brought up which highlight "to me anyway" that this incident is not so cut and dry as some would say.

But saying that I do think Hammy should get the benefit of any double there may be & should have one.

Hamilton right to be penalised

http://sport.setanta.com/en/Blogs/A-to-Z-of-Bloggers/Dave-Maher/03/09/Hamilton-right-to-be-penalised/

...How could Hamilton have rightfully had the pace to overtake at the very next corner?...


Because Raikonen broke early and took a really stupid line. Where as Hamilton broke late and took a much nicer line. I'm really confused and disapointed that people are failing to see the obvious.


exactly Kimi went defensive which is actually not the fastest way to take a corner. Lewis was on the racing line and turned in as you would normally Kimi being on the inside had the advantage and pushed him wide.
Nothing wrong with what Kimi did its racing!! but Lewis did not gain an advantage that is for sure
#63629
I too think this was a harsh decision & is no good for the sport in general.
But there have been some points brought up which highlight "to me anyway" that this incident is not so cut and dry as some would say.

But saying that I do think Hammy should get the benefit of any double there may be & should have one.

Hamilton right to be penalised

http://sport.setanta.com/en/Blogs/A-to-Z-of-Bloggers/Dave-Maher/03/09/Hamilton-right-to-be-penalised/
I may regret saying this, but perhaps it was fair for Lewis Hamilton to be punished following his duel with Kimi Raikkonen close to the end of the Belgian Grand Prix.
I say perhaps because, to be frank, I have been mulling it over and it is such a difficult one to call – tough to come to a definitive opinion.
One thing is for sure, I believe, and that is that Hamilton used illegal means to overtake Raikkonen late on in the race at La Source. He exploited the momentum he had gained from cutting the Bus Stop chicane to pass at the famous hairpin.
Let me explain how I have reached that conclusion, despite McLaren’s insistence that Hamilton dropped six kilometres per hour off his pace in order to let the Ferrari man back past on the main straight.
Hamilton made an attempt to pass Raikkonen at the chicane, and his rival held the inside line. Hamilton had nowhere else to go and thus took a route across the chicane. He then held the lead briefly before giving it back immediately. All of that is fair enough.
However, I see what happened next in the following way. How could Hamilton have rightfully had the pace to overtake at the very next corner? Apart from the rarest of circumstances, it is not possible to overtake a competitor a few hundred metres after failing to correctly take - albeit through a perfectly acceptable racing incident - the previous corner.
Of course, you could argue that it was possible, despite those set of circumstances, because Raikkonen’s pace had also been compromised by the incident.
But the Finn came on to the straight, seemingly, more or less at the same velocity as someone who had correctly gone through the chicane. That was just down to how the incident panned out – a little unlucky for Hamilton, but that’s the game.
Basically, Hamilton should not have been in a position to attempt, and complete, an overtaking manoeuvre so soon after completely missing a corner.
Logically, the fact that he was proves that he had done gained an advantage – i.e. cut the chicane – in order to have the power to essentially out-brake his opponent at the next turn. The six km/ph that Hamilton wiped off to give the lead back did not do enough to bring him back to his natural pace on the straight, had he gone through the chicane in a standard fashion.
The Briton was given a very damaging penalty for his transgression, but that is a whole other argument, one I’m not willing to get into right now.

The guy who wrote that is a clown, clearly with little or no experience of watching or taking part in motorsport.
#63636
Sorry, I'm no fan of Hamilton, but f***ing bollox. When need drivers with racing experience in charge of the stewarts, not armchair experts.

Heres the footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAD3yUUefoQ
Hamilton clearly let off, let Kimi past, and simply beat him under braking. Now where was the unfair advantage there. He gave the advantage back to Kimi. I've never seen so much crap.

Honestly, I thinks its a disgrace. I support Felipe Massa, but I'd rather see a fair championship, not someone being handed the title based on the decision of some deluded knob-heads.

I think theres no point sitting here whining either. We should all formally complain to the FIA and stewards, and hope the message gets through.


The footage was removed from youtube claiming copyright problems. It is removal of evidence on purpose IMHO.
I would like stewards to explain how could it be physically possible to pass a car from its right when you have the advantegous position on its left. It is a completely sided decision IMHO but not surprising.
#63637
I too think this was a harsh decision & is no good for the sport in general.
But there have been some points brought up which highlight "to me anyway" that this incident is not so cut and dry as some would say.

But saying that I do think Hammy should get the benefit of any double there may be & should have one.

Hamilton right to be penalised

http://sport.setanta.com/en/Blogs/A-to-Z-of-Bloggers/Dave-Maher/03/09/Hamilton-right-to-be-penalised/
I may regret saying this, but perhaps it was fair for Lewis Hamilton to be punished following his duel with Kimi Raikkonen close to the end of the Belgian Grand Prix.
I say perhaps because, to be frank, I have been mulling it over and it is such a difficult one to call – tough to come to a definitive opinion.
One thing is for sure, I believe, and that is that Hamilton used illegal means to overtake Raikkonen late on in the race at La Source. He exploited the momentum he had gained from cutting the Bus Stop chicane to pass at the famous hairpin.
Let me explain how I have reached that conclusion, despite McLaren’s insistence that Hamilton dropped six kilometres per hour off his pace in order to let the Ferrari man back past on the main straight.
Hamilton made an attempt to pass Raikkonen at the chicane, and his rival held the inside line. Hamilton had nowhere else to go and thus took a route across the chicane. He then held the lead briefly before giving it back immediately. All of that is fair enough.
However, I see what happened next in the following way. How could Hamilton have rightfully had the pace to overtake at the very next corner? Apart from the rarest of circumstances, it is not possible to overtake a competitor a few hundred metres after failing to correctly take - albeit through a perfectly acceptable racing incident - the previous corner.
Of course, you could argue that it was possible, despite those set of circumstances, because Raikkonen’s pace had also been compromised by the incident.
But the Finn came on to the straight, seemingly, more or less at the same velocity as someone who had correctly gone through the chicane. That was just down to how the incident panned out – a little unlucky for Hamilton, but that’s the game.
Basically, Hamilton should not have been in a position to attempt, and complete, an overtaking manoeuvre so soon after completely missing a corner.
Logically, the fact that he was proves that he had done gained an advantage – i.e. cut the chicane – in order to have the power to essentially out-brake his opponent at the next turn. The six km/ph that Hamilton wiped off to give the lead back did not do enough to bring him back to his natural pace on the straight, had he gone through the chicane in a standard fashion.
The Briton was given a very damaging penalty for his transgression, but that is a whole other argument, one I’m not willing to get into right now.

The guy who wrote that is a clown, clearly with little or no experience of watching or taking part in motorsport.



Well I must also be a clown mate because it did make me think. I initially see something & make a judgment but I have an open mind & if valid points are made I take them on board which I think this is.
It is not as clear cut as you say.

But it was racing & darn exciting so should have been left at that.
#63638
Look he is using the "what if" but you cant use that here because lewis DID attempt a pass. What if Lewis did not attempt the pass there he would have been right on Kimi's gearbox and could have done the same pass at La Course regardless.

this is racing this guy obviously is an armchair fan with no idea about racing
#63642
Look he is using the "what if" but you cant use that here because lewis DID attempt a pass. What if Lewis did not attempt the pass there he would have been right on Kimi's gearbox and could have done the same pass at La Course regardless.

this is racing this guy obviously is an armchair fan with no idea about racing


Yes I agree. But when you boil it down the cold hard facts are that Hammy committed too deep for the pass which Kimi rightfully did not give him. This being the case Hammy did make a ballsy mistake & mistakes should not be rewarded with the chance for an overtake on the very next corner just hundreds off meters away.
This could be said was an unfair advantage. Mistakes are usually punished.

I am not making excuses for the FIA here, just thinking aloud from things I read & see since the heat of battle. Like I said it's not clear cut.
#63645
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzKMyFCaZy0


:thumbup: good video & I agree racing and should have been left at that.
#63647
Look at it this way he was on Kimi's gear box before the bus stop he slowed down and let Kimi back infront and proceeded to be on his gearbox again. there was no difference

its not like he was 4 seconds behind before the chicane cut and then was only 0.8 behind


and to say he should have been punished for a mistake thats abit rich, he knew there was run off there if needed so attempted the pass as any driver would have. if there was a wall he would have waited until la course.... guess what right on his gear box especially since kimi went defencive and would have had a s*** exit from the bus stop!!

all the guys on the kart forum are against this call, they know racing, Niki lauda knows racing.. this guy whos blog you posted??? pffff some stupid nerd with no clue :thumbup:
#63648
Look at it this way he was on Kimi's gear box before the bus stop he slowed down and let Kimi back infront and proceeded to be on his gearbox again. there was no difference

its not like he was 4 seconds behind before the chicane cut and then was only 0.8 behind


and to say he should have been punished for a mistake thats abit rich, he knew there was run off there if needed so attempted the pass as any driver would have. if there was a wall he would have waited until la course.... guess what right on his gear box especially since kimi went defencive and would have had a s*** exit from the bus stop!!

all the guys on the kart forum are against this call, they know racing, Niki lauda knows racing.. this guy whos blog you posted??? pffff some stupid nerd with no clue :thumbup:


The mistake comment was not in reference to being punished by the FIA or the such. Just a general comment on how life is. He did make a mistake no but's about it otherwise he would not have needed to cut the corner.

Just a simple observation bud. Not trying to make anything of it.
Penalty was wrong FULL STOP.
#63651
i know he made a mistake but he took the risk knowing there was run off if needed, its not like he took the risk of the overtake knowing if he stuffs it he is in the wall! Its not like he came in too hot, infact if there was a wall i think Kimi would have given him room because Kimi would have known for sure Lewis was not going to yield.

now im delving into the what ifs :rolleyes:


end of the day this is done until the appeal which wont be for a month or so, its time to now look towards Monza.

But like my mothers surnames old scottish coat of arms motto says - oblieur ne puis translated - I cannot forget :wink:
#63653
i know he made a mistake but he took the risk knowing there was run off if needed, its not like he took the risk of the overtake knowing if he stuffs it he is in the wall! Its not like he came in too hot, infact if there was a wall i think Kimi would have given him room because Kimi would have known for sure Lewis was not going to yield.

now im delving into the what ifs :rolleyes:


end of the day this is done until the appeal which wont be for a month or so, its timeto now look towards Monza.

But like my mothers surnames old scottish coat of arms motto says - oblieur ne puis translated - I cannot forget :wink:


I'll tell you what time it is. Its F***en bed time. I am off

Ciao for now.
#63659
[email protected] complain its all Ive got to say
CR

I am a Karter here in Australia with an AKA licence and technically i am a member of this so called governing body called the FIA. I wish to state my distaste in which once again my "governing body" has handled the sport i love especially after watching the most exciting piece of racing in F1 in god knows how long no thanks to the Regs the "governing body" has come up with, only for it to be taken away to a mere waste of time, of mine and millions of racing fans time because in the eyes of 3 HALFWITS (hey Max) Lewis was said to have broken the rules ( mere etiquette actually which leaves interpretation wide open especially to corrupt HALFWITS ) but what Lewis did was exactly what you are taught since you begin in motorsport and what he did was RIGHT and FAIR. what is clear is there is other motives at work here and again its YOU the FIA you corrupt piece of EURO trash who have worked in favour of the boys clubs favoured member FERRARI
i hope you all get whats coming to you
cheers

******* Bud******

ex F1 fan and disgruntled AKA member


ill probably lose my AKA licence now :rofl:
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