FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[overboost]

I am not discussing sh!t with someone who thinks MS designed the hybrid so kindly go and do one

What is this about cookin? I have never posted any such comments regarding Schumacher nor do I think he designed the merc hybrid. Why do you persist with this? And yes Dennis has 7 wcc's to his credit not 11. You aren't getting much right lately are you!

Facts are important.

:clap:
Well done, McLaren!

Honda and the McLaren board have made the best decision. Jenson's tenacious driving in the second half made the difference.

Good luck to Jenson next season!

It will also be interesting to see Alonso and Dennis "team up" again! Will ghosts from 2007 emerge?!

[The Second Coming]

It's the creeper in the red tie, wringing his hands with the "When is it my turn?" look that is disturbing. Very Whitmarshian.

Such fun!

[overboost]

Ron Dennis:
"I am very tough on myself, and that toughness and aggression that I focus on myself isn't always a good catalyst to a balanced approach to life," he said. "I've mellowed quite a bit over the last two years, and became much more inclusive which I think is a good strategy to have to address the change of succession in the company.

"But to go back to that period, you look at the chemistry. We had Lewis, a young guy who was understandably perceived by many people as the chosen one, but also someone who had immaturity. If you go down the 'who struck the first blow' route, actually I would say Lewis had his role to play in starting this process which escalated.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/960 ... 07-debacle

It is good to see that the truth be told by Ron about 2007, Lewis was responsible for the debacle. And that Lewis was considered the 'chosen one'.

Getting outstanding 2007 issues addressed quickly is important for a successful as possible relationship between Dennis/Alonso.

[myownalias]

It is good to see that the truth be told by Ron about 2007, Lewis was responsible for the debacle. And that Lewis was considered the 'chosen one'

I don't think it's fair to blame Lewis wholesale for the shenanigans that went on in 2007; I remember a number of Alonso discretions in 2007, it was six of one, half dozen of the other and it certainly wasn't Lewis' fault that Alonso tried to Blackmail Ron Dennis, which prompted Dennis to go public and the loss of $100m and constructors points.

Now with my moderator hat on: I want no personal attacks, no insults, no matter how subtle from ANYONE, I will hand out warnings and collars!
Correction: the fashion queen takes care of the pretty collars :wink:

[What's Burning?]

I am not discussing sh!t with someone who thinks MS designed the hybrid so kindly go and do one

What is this about cookin? I have never posted any such comments regarding Schumacher nor do I think he designed the merc hybrid. Why do you persist with this? And yes Dennis has 7 wcc's to his credit not 11. You aren't getting much right lately are you!

Facts are important.

:clap:
Well done, McLaren!

Honda and the McLaren board have made the best decision. Jenson's tenacious driving in the second half made the difference.

Good luck to Jenson next season!

It will also be interesting to see Alonso and Dennis "team up" again! Will ghosts from 2007 emerge?!

You've been a very special ingredient to this season's enjoyment OB.

[The Second Coming]

Ron Dennis:
"If you go down the 'who struck the first blow' route, actually I would say Lewis had his role to play in starting this process which escalated."

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/960 ... 07-debacle

It is good to see that the truth be told by Ron about 2007, Lewis was responsible for the debacle. And that Lewis was considered the 'chosen one'.

Getting outstanding 2007 issues addressed quickly is important for a successful as possible relationship between Dennis/Alonso.

Two things:
1. Uncle Ron went to great lengths to not highlight what made Lewis decide to, as he, Ron, put it, "strike the first blow." What would make a rookie all of a sudden feel like he had to defend himself? Defend himself against what? Did Alonso do something behind the scenes perhaps? Just saying...

2. Which would you prefer...a talented rookie who will not back down to anyone on or off track or a blackmailer whom you can't trust around your business or family (based on what he did to cost you $100M)?

Fighting spirit or untrustworthy and duplicitous with the truth? Well, we now know which trait Ron values more. (I say we now know but lets be honest with ourselves, are we just discovering this?)

[CookinFlat6]

Ron Dennis:
"If you go down the 'who struck the first blow' route, actually I would say Lewis had his role to play in starting this process which escalated."

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/960 ... 07-debacle

It is good to see that the truth be told by Ron about 2007, Lewis was responsible for the debacle. And that Lewis was considered the 'chosen one'.

Getting outstanding 2007 issues addressed quickly is important for a successful as possible relationship between Dennis/Alonso.

Two things:
1. Uncle Ron went to great lengths to not highlight what made Lewis decide to, as he, Ron, put it, "strike the first blow." What would make a rookie all of a sudden feel like he had to defend himself? Defend himself against what? Did Alonso do something behind the scenes perhaps? Just saying...

2. Which would you prefer...a talented rookie who will not back down to anyone on or off track or a blackmailer whom you can't trust around your business or family (based on what he did to cost you $100M)?

Fighting spirit or untrustworthy and duplicitous with the truth? Well, we now know which trait Ron values more. (I say we now know but lets be honest with ourselves, are we just discovering this?)

If Lewis did strike the first blow and is at fault for the war, then it is likely the best first strike ever in F1. It completely destabilised alonso and neutered him for the next 5 years, allowing Lewis to have removed his biggest rival using clever off track tactics. Since that year Alonso has won no titles and has passed his peak age wise whereas Lewis is just coming into his. And ofcourse Lewis was seen as the naive one all these years - another strategic masterstroke. yes it cost Ron 100mill, but Lewis must have gambled that a better team than McLaren would come along anyway so the loss to Ron was a necessary evil. And ofcourse when the better team Merc came along it was easier to leave without disloyalty, allowing him to remain at the top of rons list in the future if he came with a better team than Merc.

All this talk about Teflon Alonso is all very well but he aint too good at getting results out of it, but the real devious manipulator and puppet master behind the scenes doesnt even have people thinking he is up to anything

Yup, the biggest trick the devil played.........

[sagi58]

It is good to see that the truth be told by Ron about 2007, Lewis was responsible for the debacle. And that Lewis was considered the 'chosen one'

I don't think it's fair to blame Lewis wholesale for the shenanigans that went on in 2007; I remember a number of Alonso discretions in 2007, it was six of one, half dozen of the other and it certainly wasn't Lewis' fault that Alonso tried to Blackmail Ron Dennis, which prompted Dennis to go public and the loss of $100m and constructors points.

Does anyone really believe that Ron Dennis has swallowed his pride to the extent that he is willing to ignore blackmail ATTEMPTS,
the BIGGEST fine in F1 history and LOSING Constructor's points in order to make nice with Alonso being back at McLaren?

That's one helluva big gulp!!
Or, more likely, we haven't heard the whole truth about 2007!
Maybe Dennis will write about it in his memoirs!!

Correction: the fashion queen takes care of the pretty collars

Purple, please!!

[racechick]

You know, I'm struggling here. I'm a Lewis fan, no shocks there, but I've never said Lewis has no faults, and for me his biggest fault has been his naivity; His belief that his superb talent will get him through, and he has therefore left himself open to two of F1's most political and backstabbing drivers.... And he's been taken advantage of, no doubt about that. But now we're talking about his rookie year, and suddenly he's the arch evil manipulator? So which is it? Is Lewis a political animal that has been playing the game since he joined F1? Or in 2007 was he just a little wet behind the ears and drove his heart out and showed up a double world champion? Which one? Cos it ain't both! And could the fact that Dennis has just had to swallow his pride and his loss of 100 mil to sweeten up his current driver have anything to do with his recent statement?
And on Lewis, I think he's wised up one whole lot in the last year.

[Jabberwocky]

I think you are right Lewis was naive to the politics of F1, then again I suppose he would of always been shielded by it in the lower formulas because Ron was writing the cheques. Lewis gets into F1 and his new step brother is a diva who as you would expect as a 2 time world champion a bit of respect and say withing the team. That Motorsport Daddy Ron was not willing to give. So step brother Alonso lost it. Then sadly Motorsport Step daddy Martin turned up with a new step brother that was the apple of his eye.

I think if Ron had stayed on, we would of stayed apolitical

[CookinFlat6]

Alonsos beef was undoubtedly that Ron blew roses up his bottom when signing him up and poaching him from flabio even before he won his second WDC. So when he turned up at McLaren and found a snot faced youngster not only whipping him in quali, but taking him on in the race he would have asked Ron to call off his rottweiler. And Ron (no one else) decided Alonso really had to prove he was better. This would ofcourse have been obvious to lewis, who would have sensed an opportunity to get promoted from rookie immediately, and this would have been seen by the proud Spaniard as a humiliation, he did try to win on track, and when it was clear he wasnt faster than Lewis in a month of Sundays - he flipped and demanded things like the team secretly underfuel Lewis for the race and a rotation of advantage, which lewis probably and rightfully thought 'if he wants to win, lets do it on track, and not by this rota that would play to the experienced drivers strengths' leading to the quali stuff and causing Alonso to completely lose any composure or champion like behaviour.
Physically assaulting doors etc in frustration is embarrasing for everyone and probably raised lewis' performance.

The first time Mika turned up at McLaren and beat Ayrton over a lap, Ayrton was not happy either, especially when he then asked Mika where he found the extra time, and Mika allegedly grabbed his balls and said 'with these'
But what did Senna do about that? and you can bet Ron was sniggering in the background - Senna didnt kick doors, he went out and beat Mika
Lewis didnt implode when Nico beat him in quali, he went and won the race

the entitlement stuff is not really a good attitude to start with and is probably Flabios fault

[The Second Coming]

I should really start a poll as to how long this makeup luv'n between Ron and Alonso is gonna go on until one disappoints the other...the preverbal pull-out too early, wipe off on the curtain and leave with pants in hand. How long before there is a tantrum? Who will instigate it? Will that cheeky Button have a laugh by splashing a little petrol on the flames? What could the fall-out be? This is good tv in the making.

Such fun!

[overboost]

It is good to see that the truth be told by Ron about 2007, Lewis was responsible for the debacle. And that Lewis was considered the 'chosen one'

I don't think it's fair to blame Lewis wholesale for the shenanigans that went on in 2007; I remember a number of Alonso discretions in 2007, it was six of one, half dozen of the other and it certainly wasn't Lewis' fault that Alonso tried to Blackmail Ron Dennis, which prompted Dennis to go public and the loss of $100m and constructors points.

Now with my moderator hat on: I want no personal attacks, no insults, no matter how subtle from ANYONE, I will hand out warnings and collars!
Correction: the fashion queen takes care of the pretty collars :wink:

Yes Lewis wasn't responsible for all the poor decisions and reactions of the others in this saga but as it has been revealed he was the one who pulled the trigger. Hamilton's "No. 2 driver" comments at Monaco and the 'disobeying team protocols incident' in Hungary are the visible flash points or perhaps Dennis is now referring to another behind the scenes incident as well. Also, Dennis's lack of driver management skill no doubt created the environment where this driver soap opera would flourish and eventually fester and break the team into pieces.

Also imo perhaps most important is the phrase "chosen one". This is the truth that was widely suspected in 2007 but always denied until now. Montoya's quote at the time describing his first reaction to the news that Alonso was headed to McLaren is now completely validated by this admission from Dennis.

Montoya: "Fernando is a nice guy, but he was the No. 1 at Renault and he was used to winning and getting everything," Montoya said. "Then he went to McLaren, and when (Montoya's wife) Connie and I heard that Lewis was going to be his teammate, we said "Oh my God."

"We immediately felt sorry for Fernando because Lewis is Ron's baby. Ron paid his whole career, so Ron wants him to win and not Fernando. He would rather see Lewis win, who is like his own child to Ron. Fernando is nothing to him."

Imo Lewis having being favoured by McLaren in 2007 will take some of the shine off of his great debut in the history books and it puts Alonso's diminished performance that year into perspective. The question will be asked, "Did Hamilton beat Alonso in 2007?" Perhaps the best way to answer that question is to say, "Yes Hamilton and McLaren beat Alonso in 2007."

[racechick]

Mercedes paid for Lewis all his career.
And he wasn't favoured in 2007 , until after the blackmailing. What upset Alonso was that HE wasn't favourd and he felt he should have been. You've misquoted the ' chosen one' phrase. I believe Dennis said ' the chosen one in some people's eyes' . Puts a whole different meaning on the phrase.
But all that aside, don't you think Ron is going to try to keep his number one driver happy ths time round?

[Hammer278]

I'm almost looking forward to this romantic hyped up trinity (Honda, Alonso, Butt) to fall flat on its face in 2015.