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[CookinFlat6]

Jenson is very popular in Japan

and is that on the back of his gf who hardly any Japs ever heard of in the first place, or is it because of his exploits all those years ago when he wasnt winning a thing but he was still a foreigner and therefore politely suported

and since then Kimi makes more adverts and stuff and I suspect the latest generation of Japanese targetted by the marketeers have had a lot more exposure to foreigners since then to remain 'fond' enough of Jenson to make an iota of difference. Nope lets be honest here and admit Button has done extremely well on his skillset and has stretched his F1 career further than a RBR front wing, but its time to go before he embarrasses himself more

[Roth]

Congratulations to Nico for winning both his home GP this year. If only Finland had one.

[myownalias]

Jenson is very popular in Japan

...lets be honest here and admit Button has done extremely well on his skillset and has stretched his F1 career further than a RBR front wing, but its time to go before he embarrasses himself more.

We can agree that he is past his best; he wasted many of his best years at a team that was going nowhere fast, that team being BAR/Honda; I think Jenson's biggest mistake was buying his way out of the Williams contract to remain at BAR/Honda!

[What's Burning?]

Jenson will be out next year. May even be left without a drive since no one is going to pay him any substantial amount of money, or maybe be scooped up by Haas? But McLaren will not sign him, he'd have been better off at Williams as I think he'd be more consistent with finishes than Massa by a long shot. We should start a poll on this even.

On the Jenson bashing thing my distaste is not mostly about the driving. He came in and used his reals skill in the team and forged a relationship with Whitmarsh that built and catered a car around him. He got the better side of the garage and used his real superiority over Lewis, the knowledge that skill on the track alone doesn't get you the support in the back of the garage.

The 2013 car was designed for Button, he said so, he gave all of the input into it and he wrapped himself around the McLaren leader mantle. 2013 was going to be HIS season his car and his leadership. The year and a half since are on his shoulders. So mid season in 2012, when McLaren was sputtering and Jenson was coming in out of the points while Lewis was still managing to drag the car fifth on up and the occasional podium. That's when I made my mind up. When the real talent according to the TP was Jenson driving from 14th to 8th instead of Lewis giving the beleaguered team a podium finish.

I'm not so much Jenson bashing as I am dumbfounded that McLaren would get the wool pulled over their eyes as badly as they did.

[racechick]

Yep, that's exactly what rankles!

[Roth]

Hamilton drove well today but not great. Coming through the field he looked a bit too eager to overtake, rather than let his natural skill and car's advantage do the work. He reminded me of Vettel coming from the back, a bit ragged and desparate at times which isn't what you would expect.

Vettel again looked down on pure pace compared to his teammate, but it was a solid enough if anonymous drive.

I don't know why there's been a Button explosion here. He drove exactly how he always drives. Now and again the forum's simmering pot has to boil over I guess.

Credit to Bottas. This is what we were talking about before as a team inches towards Merc it makes qualifying all the more important for track position. No fault of Hamilton but he can't keep going on like this for whatever reason and expect to be champion. His three competitors are Nico, his demon self, and luck, and at the moment all three are winning out. You could throw in Bernie and Merc but l don't want to go down that road.

[racechick]

Lewis was ragged? Lewis was brilliant! You think he was ragged? He got from 20th to third, and had we had the safety car we should have had , he'd have won. You don't get in that position by plodding along like
Your driving Miss Daisy. Yes Jenson drove like he always drives, that's the point that's being made.

[geetface9]

Lewis wouldn't have won even with the safety car. Rosberg was just maintaining gaps without even pushing hard. He could have pitted right after hamilton were there a safety car and still come out 13 seconds ahead or whatever the gap was on lap 47(? I think it was 47). Idk how lewis locking his brakes up and taking off his own endplate isn't ragged

[racechick]

Lewis stayed on his first tyres longer than anyone else, that's when he was locking up. We could see the lock up at the sharp turn in the stadium on the last few laps before he pitted, we couldn't believe he was staying out. On the last lap before his pit the lock up was worse, his tyres must have been completely shot. Even on those worn tyres, apart from the last lap he was holding the gap to Alonso and the red bull behind him.

How many overtakes did he do in that race? I lost count. And in one he touched a car and guess who that was, Jenson Button. Didn't look like all Lewis' fault to me , and even with damage he was fastest out there. Jenson should stop the gum banging and concentrate on beating his Rookie team mate.

[Roth]

Lewis was ragged? Lewis was brilliant! You think he was ragged? He got from 20th to third, and had we had the safety car we should have had , he'd have won. You don't get in that position by plodding along like
Your driving Miss Daisy. Yes Jenson drove like he always drives, that's the point that's being made.

He was ragged. Didn't say he wasn't good. Didn't say he wasn't fast. I said he was ragged. They can all exist in the same performance. You go way over the top at any hint of Hamilton criticism. And it's not even criticism, it's an observation. A fairly valid one.

And I'm just wondering why Jenson is getting a bashing for this race. He finished ahead of Mag so we all have so cane him because nobody has the intelligence to realise it's because Mag had to recover from the back. Let's all start on Vettel for the same reason.

[RyRy]

Lewis was ragged? Lewis was brilliant! You think he was ragged? He got from 20th to third, and had we had the safety car we should have had , he'd have won. You don't get in that position by plodding along like
Your driving Miss Daisy. Yes Jenson drove like he always drives, that's the point that's being made.

He was ragged. Didn't say he wasn't good. Didn't say he wasn't fast. I said he was ragged. They can all exist in the same performance. You go way over the top at any hint of Hamilton criticism. And it's not even criticism, it's an observation. A fairly valid one.

And I'm just wondering why Jenson is getting a bashing for this race. He finished ahead of Mag so we all have so cane him because nobody has the intelligence to realise it's because Mag had to recover from the back. Let's all start on Vettel for the same reason.

Roth, you're far too critical of Lewis Hamilton, he drove great yesterday, he drove fast, he drove aggressive and he had only two small incidents moving through the pack past 17 cars.

You obviously don't listen to the radio messages via the F1 Timing app... Rosberg was pushing, he was told to push so that they had a gap but he was saying that the car was very oversteery and that the tires were strugging. They were trying to get a gap so that they had a free pitstop. Early stages lewis was able to match Rosberg up to lap 19/20 even though Rosberg was on fresh rubber he wasn't able to beat Hamiltons lap times.

If Hamilton had got a new wing or had pitted 2-3 laps later I'm confident that he would have overtaken Bottas for sure as for a safety car, if it was deployed Hamilton would have easily got past Bottas and I'm sure a fight would have broke out between Hamilton and Rosberg, we can't say who would have won but basing it on lap times throughout the race and the fact even though Hamilton was having to make it through the field he was on very similar fuel usage as Rosberg then personally I believe Hamilton would have overtaken.

Either way Hamilton drove very very well.

[racechick]

Lewis was ragged? Lewis was brilliant! You think he was ragged? He got from 20th to third, and had we had the safety car we should have had , he'd have won. You don't get in that position by plodding along like
Your driving Miss Daisy. Yes Jenson drove like he always drives, that's the point that's being made.

He was ragged. Didn't say he wasn't good. Didn't say he wasn't fast. I said he was ragged. They can all exist in the same performance. You go way over the top at any hint of Hamilton criticism. And it's not even criticism, it's an observation. A fairly valid one.

And I'm just wondering why Jenson is getting a bashing for this race. He finished ahead of Mag so we all have so cane him because nobody has the intelligence to realise it's because Mag had to recover from the back. Let's all start on Vettel for the same reason.

Of course it's because Mag had to recover from the back. That's the whole point, had he not had to recover from the back Jenson's weekend performance would have looked even more abject.

I think Vettel has also had plenty of criticism for being soundly outraced this season by his junior team mate.

I'm not going over the top at your criticism of Lewis , I'm saying he wasn't ragged. You don't gain17 places by sitting back in your comfort zone, you have to push it.

[Roth]

Of course it's because Mag had to recover from the back. That's the whole point, had he not had to recover from the back Jenson's weekend performance would have looked even more abject.

I think Vettel has also had plenty of criticism for being soundly outraced this season by his junior team mate.

I'm not going over the top at your criticism of Lewis , I'm saying he wasn't ragged. You don't gain17 places by sitting back in your comfort zone, you have to push it.

Why knock Button though. It's counter productive. Praise Mag for finishing where he did, in the context of where Button finished, but then sticking it to Button as well just looks petty.
You can't lay off Vettel saying he's had enough criticism when you've just picked s**t out of Button and have done all season (and more). Again I feel this, like Nico, is Hamilton related, and what happened at McLaren.

Your point about Hamilton kinda contradicts itself. You admitted he locked up and that he had to push it but they don't cancel each other out in terms of how he drove. He was ragged because he extended the tires, not his tires were going off so it doesn't count.

[Ferrari man 009]

I agree with Roth - it was a good drive rather than a great one from Hamilton. Yes he gained 17 positions and made some good moves (others knew they werent really racing Lewis and let him go easily). Remember the Mercedes is the fastest except maybe Williams in a straight and is 1-3 seconds faster than ALL other cars (except maybe Williams).

Proving that others could do it, Ricciardo went from 16th to 6th despite not having a different strategy like Lewis had and an inferior car. Magnussen also went from 21st to 9th in a midfield car which was impressive. So it wasnt a "wow" drive from Hamilton, it was a good drive but nothing special - Mercedes are that dominant that anyone worthy of driving that car should make the podium at least, even from the back.

[Roth]

Roth, you're far too critical of Lewis Hamilton, he drove great yesterday, he drove fast, he drove aggressive and he had only two small incidents moving through the pack past 17 cars.

I actually think I'm pretty fair with the guy. I want him to win but I don't think he's perfect. And one of those small incidents, btw, cost him a chunk of wing and second.

You obviously don't listen to the radio messages via the F1 Timing app... Rosberg was pushing, he was told to push so that they had a gap but he was saying that the car was very oversteery and that the tires were strugging. They were trying to get a gap so that they had a free pitstop. Early stages lewis was able to match Rosberg up to lap 19/20 even though Rosberg was on fresh rubber he wasn't able to beat Hamiltons lap times.

This is the mental weakness thing again, listing Hamilton's achievements for no apparent reason. What does it have to do with ragged? That if he was ragged he couldn't be fast? That he was faster than Rosberg? That just proves that he was very unlucky in quali, so should have won. Why did he cook his last two sets of SS? He caught Alonso at a tremendous rate that wasn't strictly necessary. If he had glided rather than sprinted after the last stop he might have had enough in the tires to pass Bottas, who himself was on much older tires in a slower car. Again, the self inflicted wing problem didn't help.

If Hamilton had got a new wing or had pitted 2-3 laps later I'm confident that he would have overtaken Bottas for sure as for a safety car, if it was deployed Hamilton would have easily got past Bottas and I'm sure a fight would have broke out between Hamilton and Rosberg, we can't say who would have won but basing it on lap times throughout the race and the fact even though Hamilton was having to make it through the field he was on very similar fuel usage as Rosberg then personally I believe Hamilton would have overtaken.

Tell it to the FIA, they might change the result.

Either way Hamilton drove very very well.

He drove a good race but could have done better. After quali it was damage limitation and he almost made the most of it.