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[Rivelution]

Didn't get to see the race this weekend, glad to see Kimi got 2nd though... and Vettel not on the podium.

[PartsaS]

....Then not a single mention that the car was bad to start and has been built around Jenson who likes to understeer his way around tracks and Sergio prefers things on the oversteer tip.
Then they compare him to many other drivers who started at Mclaren, but forgot to say they were all vastly experienced already
And Button has a get out of jail card already, he is getting the best out of the 5th best car by coming 6th when others in better cars had dnfs or other problems.
And Whitmarsh says Sergio needs to be more aggressive and toughen up? The same guy who told the press that Lewis needed to learn not to be aggressive and let other drivers go...

The article is rubbish indeed, Perez is not a bad driver, he is young, excited and the pressure of proving himself in his new team makes him to do mistakes that imo, he wouldn't do if the car was better.
The mp4-28 project started before Lewis left, and it is not build specifically around Jenson's driving style. You may think Jenson is something like the antichrist of f1 , But none can blame him for the (fundamental?) wrong build of the car.
Besides that, If Button had the car he wished for, before the start of the season, now we would see a very different story. Since Button came to the team only positive things come to mind, he has done fewer mistakes than Lewis, who hasn't benefited McLaren more than Jenson since 2010:
__________2010_____2011_____2012_____total
Jenson_____214______270______188______672
Lewis______240______227______190______657

Yes Lewis is a great talent, probably the fastest driver in F1, but with his character and state of mind he had lately with McL, he wouldn't do much good for us if he stayed to the team. Unlike with his new team.Things move forward and evolve so I would prefer a promising youngster (perez) who loves McL than a champion who hates us.
I wouldn't blame Martin either, although everybody is doing his best, some times things go wrong, and if you haven't got some luck, you reach bottom. The easy thing to do is to blame people and direct your anger to them, the hard one, is having hope and keep trying.

[IheartKimmi]

CookinFlat6 wrote:
....Then not a single mention that the car was bad to start and has been built around Jenson who likes to understeer his way around tracks and Sergio prefers things on the oversteer tip.
Then they compare him to many other drivers who started at Mclaren, but forgot to say they were all vastly experienced already
And Button has a get out of jail card already, he is getting the best out of the 5th best car by coming 6th when others in better cars had dnfs or other problems.
And Whitmarsh says Sergio needs to be more aggressive and toughen up? The same guy who told the press that Lewis needed to learn not to be aggressive and let other drivers go...

The article is rubbish indeed, Perez is not a bad driver, he is young, excited and the pressure of proving himself in his new team makes him to do mistakes that imo, he wouldn't do if the car was better.
The mp4-28 project started before Lewis left, and it is not build specifically around Jenson's driving style. You may think Jenson is something like the antichrist of f1 , But none can blame him for the (fundamental?) wrong build of the car.
Besides that, If Button had the car he wished for, before the start of the season, now we would see a very different story. Since Button came to the team only positive things come to mind, he has done fewer mistakes than Lewis, who hasn't benefited McLaren more than Jenson since 2010:
__________2010_____2011_____2012_____total
Jenson_____214______270______188______672
Lewis______240______227______190______657

Yes Lewis is a great talent, probably the fastest driver in F1, but with his character and state of mind he had lately with McL, he wouldn't do much good for us if he stayed to the team. Unlike with his new team.Things move forward and evolve so I would prefer a promising youngster (perez) who loves McL than a champion who hates us.
I wouldn't blame Martin either, although everybody is doing his best, some times things go wrong, and if you haven't got some luck, you reach bottom. The easy thing to do is to blame people and direct your anger to them, the hard one, is having hope and keep trying.


Thank you! This is what I feel. The hatred towards MacLaren and Jensen since Lewis signed for Mercedes is unbelievable. When Kimmi went to Ferrari I was very sad but I still supported him as a driver but never Ferrari as a Team and I try not to badmouth a Team or Driver that I dont really like. They are Drivers, not someone I have to get into bed every night with, not someone I have to go to dinner with, just drivers. I don't think about them on a personal level, well except Kimmi, it would be

[Hammer278]

....Then not a single mention that the car was bad to start and has been built around Jenson who likes to understeer his way around tracks and Sergio prefers things on the oversteer tip.
Then they compare him to many other drivers who started at Mclaren, but forgot to say they were all vastly experienced already
And Button has a get out of jail card already, he is getting the best out of the 5th best car by coming 6th when others in better cars had dnfs or other problems.
And Whitmarsh says Sergio needs to be more aggressive and toughen up? The same guy who told the press that Lewis needed to learn not to be aggressive and let other drivers go...

The article is rubbish indeed, Perez is not a bad driver, he is young, excited and the pressure of proving himself in his new team makes him to do mistakes that imo, he wouldn't do if the car was better.
The mp4-28 project started before Lewis left, and it is not build specifically around Jenson's driving style. You may think Jenson is something like the antichrist of f1 , But none can blame him for the (fundamental?) wrong build of the car.
Besides that, If Button had the car he wished for, before the start of the season, now we would see a very different story. Since Button came to the team only positive things come to mind, he has done fewer mistakes than Lewis, who hasn't benefited McLaren more than Jenson since 2010:
__________2010_____2011_____2012_____total
Jenson_____214______270______188______672
Lewis______240______227______190______657

Yes Lewis is a great talent, probably the fastest driver in F1, but with his character and state of mind he had lately with McL, he wouldn't do much good for us if he stayed to the team. Unlike with his new team.Things move forward and evolve so I would prefer a promising youngster (perez) who loves McL than a champion who hates us.
I wouldn't blame Martin either, although everybody is doing his best, some times things go wrong, and if you haven't got some luck, you reach bottom. The easy thing to do is to blame people and direct your anger to them, the hard one, is having hope and keep trying.

Yes, please conveniently leave out over a 100 points in Lewis' favour through retirements while leading GPs or team screw ups when he was going for podium positions. The most high profile DNF Button suffered in McLaren I can remember was in Monza while running 2nd. The rest of the time he simply benefitted whenever Lewis broke down and gained points that way....but let's forget all that and say Button OUTSCORED Lewis during their partnership! Even though Lewis got more poles, more wins, more fastest laps, more of everything, even DNFS!

Tunnel vision/selective vision must be fun...I should try that out more and see what it feels like.

[racechick]

The article is rubbish indeed, Perez is not a bad driver, he is young, excited and the pressure of proving himself in his new team makes him to do mistakes that imo, he wouldn't do if the car was better.
The mp4-28 project started before Lewis left, and it is not build specifically around Jenson's driving style. You may think Jenson is something like the antichrist of f1 , But none can blame him for the (fundamental?) wrong build of the car.
Besides that, If Button had the car he wished for, before the start of the season, now we would see a very different story. Since Button came to the team only positive things come to mind, he has done fewer mistakes than Lewis, who hasn't benefited McLaren more than Jenson since 2010:
__________2010_____2011_____2012_____total
Jenson_____214______270______188______672
Lewis______240______227______190______657

Yes Lewis is a great talent, probably the fastest driver in F1, but with his character and state of mind he had lately with McL, he wouldn't do much good for us if he stayed to the team. Unlike with his new team.Things move forward and evolve so I would prefer a promising youngster (perez) who loves McL than a champion who hates us.
I wouldn't blame Martin either, although everybody is doing his best, some times things go wrong, and if you haven't got some luck, you reach bottom. The easy thing to do is to blame people and direct your anger to them, the hard one, is having hope and keep trying.

I have to disagree with some of your points. Whilst Jenson cannot be held responsible for the fundamental failings of the Mclaren, by his own admission he had a massive input into this car and how he wanted it to be. Sergio has said the same.

Fewer mistakes than Lewis? Lewis undoubtably made mistakes in 2011 when he was pushing that Mclaren to catch the Bulls but last year??? Lewis was flawless. Had Mclaren not taken their eye of the championship ball to sort out Jensons mid season difficulties, when he had a seven race drought of points...whilst Lewis was on the podium, they may have won both championships. I'd say that was a very negative affect of Jenson.

You can read those statistics anyway you like. Ask any team leader who they'd rather have in their team out of those two divers. And look at their pay checks.

[CookinFlat6]

They are Drivers, not someone I have to get into bed every night with, not someone I have to go to dinner with, just drivers. I don't think about them on a personal level, well except Kimmi, it would be

Ok so you equate sports with a dating agency, did you give young andrew the house number when you invited him over to 'watch sports'

On a joking note, Whitmarsh is not just incompetent, he is frankly creepy with his man management approach. When Jenson started at mclaren all he did was make him comfortable at Lewis' expense, even when lewis was lapping him last year and qualifying 8 places ahead he never once blamed jenson, instead gave him all the love he could.

And now you hve an inexperienced driver, and all he does is put pressure on him and criticise him in public after 3 races? Its not like jenson has lapped him or qualified 8 spots ahead. Perez was brought in as a 'rough diamond' needing oiling and grooming by Whitmarsh himself as he told us. If thats the case why start on him and compare him unfavourably to Button after 3 races?

Which is it Whitmarsh got him to equally lead with jenson and he has beenfound wanting or whitmarsh got his as a junior to Jenson and he is acting exactly as a junior

So far he has been closer to Jenson than Jenson was to Lewis when he had his crisis last year, a time when Whitmarsh did not once blame Jenson but instead blamed the car and gave instructions to evolve the next years car with more rear end

Everything we pointed out last year about the unfairness toward Lewis was correct (he left in disgust) and now the same is been unleashed on poor Sergio. Anyway lets see how the next race goes because one things for sure, if it looks like a pig, and sounds like a pig, no matter how much lipstick or wine is involved, sooner or later it will mess like a pig

[What's Burning?]

Let's face the facts, compared to Jenson, Perez is not good looking.

[darwin dali]

Let's face the facts, compared to Jenson, Perez is not good looking.

That is disturbing.

[CookinFlat6]

Let's face the facts, compared to Jenson, Perez is not good looking.

Not disturbingly so, or not enough to cause stirring of the flesh, even after the mandatory boyband haircut martin likes

[racechick]

I agree about Whitmarshes treatment of his drivers, it's absolutely bizarre? He covered for Jenson left right and centre, talking him up and spending precious engineering time sorting him out. Both at Lewis expense. It looks like Lowe has walked in disgusts as well as Lewis. He must have been wringing his hand last year.
So why pick on Perez now? He's not being given a chance. If Whitmarsh is disappointed because Perez is not a Lewis , well Lewis's don't come along everyday, and when one did Whitmarsh blew it.
But Perez could be a solid driver, come on Martin, give him a bit of the love you gave Jenson, Perez is only 22, Jenson was a big boy when you coached him to deal with Hamilton!

And the Mclaren, I wonder how bad that car is? Perez is new, dealing with settling in to a new team, clearly won't be getting the best out of that car yet.
Button, two fifth places barring the pitstop drama. That's not bad. Jenson is a smooth and consistent driver, not known for squeezing extra performance out of a car, but able to drive very well when things suit. So that car can't be too bad.
On qualifying, neither Button or Perez are one lap experts Button was out qualified 44 to 14( something like that ) with Lewis. So looking to the cars one lap speed will likely make it look worse than it really is.

All have said that this car has potential. Could it be that They are missing Lowe to sort it out? And could Jenson be struggling with set up as he did last year?
Just some thoughts.

Edit OOPS! thought this was the Mclaren thread

[CookinFlat6]

Thing is we or the team will not know if the car is bad or good enough to challenge because the lead driver is 4/10 slower than the top tier drivers. And if the lead driver feels ashamed of his sloweness and tells the team that its the cars fault, then the team are obliged to spend resorces on diminishuing returns trying to 'improve' the car for the lead driver. Just as we saw at BAR and Honda, a constant journey to improve a car that is surprisingly good once in a while

Another problem for the team is that without Lewis around to keep button honest, the slide will be more pronounced as Jenson will just settle into a comfortable constant moan about a car thats never good enough with sugar daddy wasting grandaddys money to satisfy his disturbingly needy young friend

[1Lemon]

Edit OOPS! thought this was the Mclaren thread

All threads on this forum are about McLaren or Hamilton or both.

[racechick]

Edit OOPS! thought this was the Mclaren thread

All threads on this forum are about McLaren or Hamilton or both.

Just can't keep an interesting topic down eh?

[CookinFlat6]

Edit OOPS! thought this was the Mclaren thread

All threads on this forum are about McLaren or Hamilton or both.

Thats true of all English language forums I believe. However I think you might find Mercedes has replaced Mclaren when it comes to most discussed team.
When the McLaren TP starts saying things like this, you suspect its just a matter of time before its 'McLaren who?'

following on in quick succession from last weekend's Chinese Grand Prix, we'll look to consolidate our achievements in Shanghai with further solid points finishes this weekend.

Great achievement indeed, to finish 5th because a Merc and Red Bull retired and the number 2s of Ferrari and Lotus went missing. Lets see how excited we can all get by a mid grid team coming behind the top 4 teams

[Hammer278]

Thing is we or the team will not know if the car is bad or good enough to challenge because the lead driver is 4/10 slower than the top tier drivers. And if the lead driver feels ashamed of his sloweness and tells the team that its the cars fault, then the team are obliged to spend resorces on diminishuing returns trying to 'improve' the car for the lead driver. Just as we saw at BAR and Honda, a constant journey to improve a car that is surprisingly good once in a while

Another problem for the team is that without Lewis around to keep button honest, the slide will be more pronounced as Jenson will just settle into a comfortable constant moan about a car thats never good enough with sugar daddy wasting grandaddys money to satisfy his disturbingly needy young friend

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH