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[1Lemon]

[So if the team tells you a number of times that you should do this or that or things will go wrong, and they never do, how reliable are those team messages then?

and they NEVER do? A bit of a generalisation.

[racechick]

The teams spend millions of pounds on state of the art equipment. If that equipment says something is overheating I'd be inclined to listen. Likewise running low on fuel. They have the information not the drivers.

[mnmracer]

[So if the team tells you a number of times that you should do this or that or things will go wrong, and they never do, how reliable are those team messages then?

and they NEVER do? A bit of a generalisation.

Well then, when was the last time Vettel ignored a team's request to take it easy, and suffered a mechanical failure?

[1Lemon]

So if the team tells you a number of times that you should do this or that or things will go wrong, and they never do, how reliable are those team messages then?

and they NEVER do? A bit of a generalisation.

Well then, when was the last time Vettel ignored a team's request to take it easy, and suffered a mechanical failure?

We don't know, we don't get every single radio message, but how can you categorically say that they NEVER go wrong? For all we know in Valencia they told Vettel to ease off before the alternator broke, he ignored it and the team decided not to go public to save face.

[mnmracer]

So if the team tells you a number of times that you should do this or that or things will go wrong, and they never do, how reliable are those team messages then?

and they NEVER do? A bit of a generalisation.

Well then, when was the last time Vettel ignored a team's request to take it easy, and suffered a mechanical failure?

We don't know, we don't get every single radio message, but how can you categorically say that they NEVER go wrong? For all we know in Valencia they told Vettel to ease off before the alternator broke, he ignored it and the team decided not to go public to save face.

Considering we've gotten plenty of radio messages, it'd be kind of strange for the broadcaster to think that when it actually happens, it's not interesting.
But ok: based on the evidence at hand, it is unlikely.

[myownalias]

We can debate back and forth about whether Vettel's actions had consequences or not, the bottom line here is that Vettel ignored his employer and did his own thing; in any other job, you'd be handed your P45 for such insubordination. The racing fan in me hates these orders handed down from upon high and wishes more drivers would ignore team orders, but the reality is; it's an employer/employee relationship and the employer always has authority, actions that go against the teams will disrupt the harmony of the team and shines a massive great big spotlight on the team for all the wrong reasons. It comes down to F1 being an individual sport within a team structure, two factions that don't mix!

[madbrad]

The latest thing is Vettel has said that Webber didn't deserve to win that day. Well, That fits with the title of this thread for sure. That's Vettel alright.

[mnmracer]

We can debate back and forth about whether Vettel's actions had consequences or not, the bottom line here is that Vettel ignored his employer and did his own thing; in any other job, you'd be handed your P45 for such insubordination. The racing fan in me hates these orders handed down from upon high and wishes more drivers would ignore team orders, but the reality is; it's an employer/employee relationship and the employer always has authority, actions that go against the teams will disrupt the harmony of the team and shines a massive great big spotlight on the team for all the wrong reasons. It comes down to F1 being an individual sport within a team structure, two factions that don't mix!

Formula One is more a coorporation between two parties than an employer situation. What other 'teamsport' in the world has a player's championship? Messi can be the superstar of Barcelona, but in the end the team will win the prices. Messi himself is not World Player's Champion.

The latest thing is Vettel has said that Webber didn't deserve to win that day. Well, That fits with the title of this thread for sure. That's Vettel alright.

Small correction: he said he didn't deserve 'it'.
Considering he was talking about following team orders and how Webber has never helped him, he felt Webber didn't deserve Vettel's support in obeying a teamorder.

[Big Azza]

In a way, I agree with Seb. Would like this situation to be handled much better and more professionally from both sides though....

[mnmracer]

In a way, I agree with Seb. Would like this situation to be handled much better and more professionally from both sides though....

I think the biggest problem is that Vettel was so sheepish about it after the race. He should have stood for his case from the get-go, like he's doing now.
I would have died laughing if on the podium, he would have patted Mark on the back and said "I was taught by the best, isn't that right mate?"

[What's Burning?]

But he didn't did he? Instead he did the back stabbing, whining, lying, claiming ignorance,claiming Webber had pushed him off thing. And three weeks later it all switches to I did it because I'm a racer.

That's Vettle.

[mnmracer]

But he didn't did he? Instead he did the back stabbing, whining, lying, claiming ignorance,claiming Webber had pushed him off thing. And three weeks later it all switches to I did it because I'm a racer.

That's Vettle.

This is a tone we've never heard of him before. It looks like gloves off, no more mr nice guy and say it like it is.
If he keeps that, it's just a 25 year old growing up
Otherwise, yeah, he has a problem.

[What's Burning?]

We're finally in agreement. We'd both preferred had he just been up front about it all. I think that's what I said three weeks ago post race.

[mnmracer]

We're finally in agreement. We'd both preferred had he just been up front about it all. I think that's what I said three weeks ago post race.

I said the same thing, although perhaps not here (don't remember).

[LewEngBridewell]

The media will be milking this if it's an RBR front row.