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[spankyham]

My 2 bobs worth .....

I think Jenson fans have fought for their guy in the past. But when the same negatives are posted again and again, in the end people eventually can get worn down. Is there a point to entering a discussion with someone who you know cannot change their mind?

As Albert Einstein said “The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.”

Some (stress the some) members here have mercilessly and relentlessly subjected Jenson to the same criticisms over and over.

[racechick]

Jenson's not the only one that gets a bashing. When drivers are in the limelight there will be people who love them and people who don't. Vettel's had it, Schumacher had it. There will be aspects of their personality/ racing style/ professionalism that some don't like. Lewis comes in for it frequently, not so much now as his loyal fans have stuck around , but in the past I can remember him being bashed left right and centre on this forum and I often felt like a lone voice defending him back then. But defend him I did. Anyone remember the Lewis dissenters club? I just played all those haters at their own game. It was a great thread till some mod locked it Tex I think. If the Lewis dissenters club was before your time, take a look
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4037&hilit=Lewis+Hamilton+dissenters+club

And this was in the guys first year! Lots more things the haters could add to the list of reasons to bash now. But you just have to throw it right back.

I've been responsible for a fair amount of Jenson bashing I must admit, and that's because his actions had a direct and adverse affect on my driver. Also because people refused to see what was going on at McLaren, which was eventually borne out by subsequent events. So when you see things like that, you have to say it, especially when people aren't listening and are calling you a conspirator. Each time another bit of evidence comes to light you have to highlight it, even if it's been said before. Well that's how I felt.
But I won't bash for the sake of it, only when I think it's deserved, and if I think praise is deserved I'll give it, as it did after Silverstone.
I'm fairly ambivalent to Jenson now, as I was before his McLaren days because he's no longer affecting Lewis, it's McLarens issue now. There may be a few on this forum who give Jenson an unfairly hard time, I suspect like me it stems a lot from the Whitmarsh /Button shenanagins. But there are a lot who support him. There were a lot of people at Silverstone in pink T shirts who support him. So get vocal behind your man! Don't run away!

[myownalias]

I'm still baffled by what Jenson was supposed to have done at McLaren when Lewis was there; Jenson just built a team of people around himself, while Lewis at times ostracized himself with silly comments and leaking documents on Twitter. Playing mind games is a big part of F1; always has been and always will be; if you can psychologically break your team mate, that is half the battle won, especially when driving for a dominant team.

I'm the first to criticize Jenson when he puts in a poor performance; and yes I fully acknowledge there have been quite a few. Is Jenson a driver on the same level as drivers like Fernando and Lewis, no, but given the right set of circumstances, he can be the class of the field, unfortunately those set of circumstances haven't really materialized over the past four years and the last two years have been disastrous, which Jenson has to take at least part of the blame as he was the senior driver when developing the McLaren, but he is only one cog in a large machine; hopefully the restructuring this year and Honda investment next year will push McLaren and Jenson to the front in 2015, should Jenson get a contract extension, I believe he is making a good case for himself and we know that Honda are keen to keep him given his Japanese connections.

[racechick]

Myown, you've always been more than fair in your comments regarding Jenson. Praise and criticism in equal measure when due.
I'm probably over critical because as I said his politicking affected Lewis. I also think Jenson got a lot of the flack because an inefficient TP was trying to justify his signing of Jenson by overly praising anything he did and sidelining Lewis. ( I was fine with that while Jens was settling into the team but it just went on and on)
Regarding tweeting data, Ron wanted Lewis to have the duff wing because he had dared to ask for the same salary as Jensen , to teach him who was boss. In the light of that I don't blame Lewis for tweeting data one little bit. Lewis loves Spa and that win was taken from him.

[LRW]

If the Lewis dissenters club was before your time, take a look
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4037&hilit=Lewis+Hamilton+dissenters+club

That is one of the greatest drunken thread starts Ive ever seen RC - Im assuming it was before your green jacket time?

I think a LOT of drivers get a bashing in this place.

[racechick]

If the Lewis dissenters club was before your time, take a look
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4037&hilit=Lewis+Hamilton+dissenters+club

That is one of the greatest drunken thread starts Ive ever seen RC - Im assuming it was before your green jacket time?

I think a LOT of drivers get a bashing in this place.

LOL long before my green jacket!!

[LRW]

If the Lewis dissenters club was before your time, take a look
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4037&hilit=Lewis+Hamilton+dissenters+club

That is one of the greatest drunken thread starts Ive ever seen RC - Im assuming it was before your green jacket time?

I think a LOT of drivers get a bashing in this place.

LOL long before my green jacket!!

So there is hope for Hammer278 yet.

[racechick]

If the Lewis dissenters club was before your time, take a look
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4037&hilit=Lewis+Hamilton+dissenters+club

That is one of the greatest drunken thread starts Ive ever seen RC - Im assuming it was before your green jacket time?

I think a LOT of drivers get a bashing in this place.

LOL long before my green jacket!!

So there is hope for Hammer278 yet.

There's always hope LRW, there's always hope!!

[myownalias]

If the Lewis dissenters club was before your time, take a look
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4037&hilit=Lewis+Hamilton+dissenters+club

That is one of the greatest drunken thread starts Ive ever seen RC - Im assuming it was before your green jacket time?

I think a LOT of drivers get a bashing in this place.

LOL long before my green jacket!!

So there is hope for Hammer278 yet.

There's always hope LRW, there's always hope!!

And that will be the day that I call my ISP and tell them to switch off my internet connection!

[LRW]

If the Lewis dissenters club was before your time, take a look
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4037&hilit=Lewis+Hamilton+dissenters+club

That is one of the greatest drunken thread starts Ive ever seen RC - Im assuming it was before your green jacket time?

I think a LOT of drivers get a bashing in this place.

LOL long before my green jacket!!

So there is hope for Hammer278 yet.

There's always hope LRW, there's always hope!!

And that will be the day that I call my ISP and tell them to switch off my internet connection!

I thought you already did that once.....?

[CookinFlat6]

My two bobs worth....

How come all the members who left because poor Jenson got criticized dont all come back to complain periodically and to remind us that they have all left? Why is it only a couple?

Why do a minority of members feel entitled to having things their own way without having to stand up and earn it? So some think Jenson is sneaky and lazy and only drives as well as he can when everything is perfect and he can be bothered, Case for the prosecution? - Ron apparently thinks the same.

With the Woking squad experiencing another poor campaign, CEO Dennis urged the 2009 World Champion to "do his bit" and "try harder" to help the team to turn their fortunes around.

So why dont his supporters disprove this with a solid argument supported by facts? Why give up and beat a retreat while playing the victim card. At Silverstone on Sunday the one time everyone cleared out of the lounge and onto the terrace to cheer for Lewis was when he overtook Button. I was waiting for a Jenson fan to stand up and complain or to leave upset. Lewis has faced a lot more oppression from detractors through his career and has earnt his following, why are Jenson fans not willing to get through the tough periods without leaving/coming back etc

Why is it ok to copy in parrot fashion a team boss and regurgitate his agenda over and over in annoying parrot fashion - the cars are too slow, rules are too restrictive, hybrids are a scam etc etc, yet its upsetting to hear the agenda of another team boss repeated - my driver is highly paid and should be working harder and getting more out of the car all the time to justify his place in this team?

Finally can we provide some proof when we make sweeping statements like this

I believe he is making a good case for himself and we know that Honda are keen to keep him given his Japanese connections.

Honda are keen to keep him? Says who? Why did they push for a 'top' driver - Alonso, Why has Ron said they need a top driver and will sign Alonso or Lewis if available beside the rookie whose employment has 'worked out'

Button himself confirms that Rons rocket under his bottom recently drove him to drive the best he has all season - why should the 3rd highest paid driver on the grid at the most successful F1 team in history need to be told to do his best?

If Jenson fans could get realistic and see that what they call 'bashing' is exactly the same thing Button confirms motivates him when delivered by his boss. So to say posters on a forum are somehow unfair on him is absolutely ridiculous. And those that say so are exactly the same ones who said the same thing about (repeated) critiscism of the ex tp who was terminated with extreme predjudice, they were the same ones complaining about criticism of the team management, telling us there was absolutely nothing wrong at McLaren

[Hammer278]

If the Lewis dissenters club was before your time, take a look
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4037&hilit=Lewis+Hamilton+dissenters+club

That is one of the greatest drunken thread starts Ive ever seen RC - Im assuming it was before your green jacket time?

I think a LOT of drivers get a bashing in this place.

LOL long before my green jacket!!

So there is hope for Hammer278 yet.

There's always hope LRW, there's always hope!!

And that will be the day that I call my ISP and tell them to switch off my internet connection!

Says the <self edited for misrepresentation> moderator.

OOP BURN!!

My two bobs worth....

How come all the members who left because poor Jenson got criticized dont all come back to complain periodically and to remind us that they have all left? Why is it only a couple?

Why do a minority of members feel entitled to having things their own way without having to stand up and earn it? So some think Jenson is sneaky and lazy and only drives as well as he can when everything is perfect and he can be bothered, Case for the prosecution? - Ron apparently thinks the same. So why dont his supporters disprove this with a solid argument supported by facts? Why give up and beat a retreat while playing the victim card. At Silverstone on Sunday the one time everyone cleared out of the lounge and onto the terrace to cheer for Lewis was when he overtook Button. I was waiting for a Jenson fan to stand up and complain or to leave upset. Lewis has faced a lot more oppression from detractors through his career and has earnt his following, why are Jenson fans not willing to get through the tough periods without leaving/coming back etc

Why is it ok to copy in parrot fashion a team boss and regurgitate his agenda over and over in annoying parrot fashion - the cars are too slow, rules are too restrictive, hybrids are a scam etc etc, yet its upsetting to hear the agenda of another team boss repeated - my driver is highly paid and should be working harder and getting more out of the car all the time to justify his place in this team?

Finally can we provide some proof when we make sweeping statements like this

I believe he is making a good case for himself and we know that Honda are keen to keep him given his Japanese connections.

Honda are keen to keep him? Says who? Why did they push for a 'top' driver - Alonso, Why has Ron said they need a top driver and will sign Alonso or Lewis if available beside the rookie whose employment has 'worked out'

Button himself confirms that Rons rocket under his bottom recently drove him to drive the best he has all season - why should the 3rd highest driver on the grid at the most successful F1 team in history need to be told to do his best?

If Jenson fans could get realistic and see that what they call 'bashing' is exactly the same thing Button confirms motivates him when delivered by his boss. So to say posters on a forum are somehow unfair on him is absolutely ridiculous. And those that say so are exactly the same ones who said the same thing about (repeated) critiscism of the ex tp who was terminated with extreme predjudice, they were the same ones complaining about criticism of the team management, telling us there was absolutely nothing wrong at McLaren

Great f'in post.

[CookinFlat6]

Lewis at times ostracized himself with silly comments and leaking documents on Twitter.

Lewis leaked the data on twitter to show Mercedes - with whom he was in negotiations at the time, that the reason Button was faster was because his wing gave an aero advantage of almost a second.

This was because Rons was actively trying to scupper his move to Merc, and amongst other things met with Merc execs and spread misinformation relating to Lewis' ability to work with his engineers in setting up the car. Ron then ordered the team to give the better wing only to Button

The resultant tweeting was to nip this dastardly plan in the bud and to confirm his intention to leave the team and take a year out rather than stay any longer at a place where his best years were getting wasted by the futile dilution of resources to try to get Button close to him in performance

Lewis chose to leave for a team with a different approach to winning, Button choose to build the team around him - the rest as they say is now history

[racechick]

And for everyone's information Myown was not fired, he was an excellent Mod. Naughty boy Hammer!!

[zurich_allan]

I think Jenson did a very good job at Silverstone the whole weekend. He's still 20 points ahead of his teammate, and rookie or not, beating your teammate is what every racer aims for if their car is not capable of winning. Be interesting to see how things pan out for Jenson in the second half of the season.