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#226749
Wikipedia says this:

Webber – who brushed the armco with the right-hand side of his car three laps previously[27][32] – pitted after struggling for grip on the super-soft, option tyres.[31] He rejoined the circuit 16th, and behind the early-stopping trio of Rosberg, Petrov and Alguersuari. Four laps later, Alonso also brushed the Turn 19 barrier before pitting.[31]



Taken from the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Abu_Dhabi_Grand_Prix#cite_note-pitstops-30
#226754
Ok mate - after 14 pages of you telling everyone to go back and look at images and videos you're going on like a cracked record. We've watched it, we say what we see, you tell us to watch it again.

I know that´s speculative, but it’s only a man and a team and it wouldn’t had been the first time.
But I insist that the key factor is MS accident. He wouldn´t have done such a thing just for a small possibility of something small. It’s nothing about FA losing, it’s about SV wining.


Wow - that's an improvement from someone who started off this thread with listing everything as fact :eek: . Look on the first lap it's pretty hard to plan something that will decide the outcome 55 laps later. How many hours of planning would it take for the Mercedes Team to do this pefectly?

It's pretty stupid. Vettel won the title on his own accord and Ferrari lost the title on their own accord. And in order for Sebastian to be absolutely ensured of a victory, the Mercedes Team would have had to conspire with the McLaren team as well. It's absurd. Contrary to popular belief, Shumacher can make a mistake. He has spun before with no other cars around him in a Ferrari. Was that a conspiracy? I've seen Alonso spin too with no one around him. Is that a conspiracy?

Schumacher did not want to take out Rosberg. He was off the racing line, meaning there was very little grip. It is usually very difficult for two cars to go through a chicane side by side - is you have the wrong line and are two aggressive - you will spin. Vettel did something similar to Button this year at Spa. Was that a conspiracy? How many times did Liuzzi spin this year? Is that a conspiracy? Hamilton going wide on Alonso in Korea and Brazil? Remember Piquet and Crashajima? They spun nearly every race.... A conspiracy?

Mate - you are one in a million. Stop telling us to look back the videos we watch it - combine it with our experience in watching F1 races - and we know spins happen all the time.

Let me try another blasphemous approach which is bound to grab your attention - was Senna crashing at Imola in '94 a conspiracy to help Schumacher?

Drivers spin all the time. In your oringinal post you said something that made me piss myself I can't quote now because it's too far back. It was like: "Schumacher did not make any contact. So the only other option is that he did it on purpose" :rofl: So there are only 2 factors that can contribute to a spin?

Mate - do yourself a favour - and watch a few more races before you make yourself look like an idiot. :bs:

But welcome to the forum, I'd like to see your opinion on other more relevant issues. :wavey:


You look pretty angry, I´m sorry for that. I have to say one thing to you, people have a tendency to merge thinking and emotions as if they were the same, but they aren’t.
I know how much you do like Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel. I respect that very much, but I think you’re not the most appropriate person to take a neutral part in that issue. If you find the need to defend your idols like if they were truly saints, isn’t my problem. You seem to be the kind of person that tries to thing those ugly things doesn’t exist; you prefer to enjoy things without questioning them. That’s a sage and healthy measure. You’ll be happier this way, but invalidates you to take part in an honest and depth discussion over anything.
If there’s something that I’m looking for are an open mind and an impartial approach to the facts. And I know since my first post that’s a very difficult task. It´s much more easy to find insults and interested or depictive opinions, than truly honest and neutral ones.
I have to admit that you’re one of the few people that have treated me properly since the beginning and I appreciate that, but please, don’t tell me what I must do and I’ll do the same to you.
Nonetheless I have to say that I like much people like you, but not for these questions.
Pd: Do you really think you’ve watched more races than me. I know you don’t.
#226757
I deduce for your answer that you haven`t got a driver license. Please, get it and after that, take another look at the accident. I got it and I can assure you that this was a simulation, almost perfect, between Rosberg and him.


A road licence makes you an expert on racing matters, does it? Damn, and here I was going to apply for a MSA competition licence. I must be mad thinking to waste money on something that I clearly don't need. :rolleyes:

You don't know whether or not I have a driving licence, but here you're trying to say that having one makes any difference in this matter. It doesn't, driving on a road is nothing like driving on a racetrack in a competitive environment with the kind of cars these guys do. They are not alike.

And don´t tell me that he didn´t, please.


So basically, "don't tell me the truth because I don't want to hear it"?

Okay. You're still wrong, though. :)


That’s developing into a personal confrontation and I admit myself guilty in a part of it. If we disagree it’s OK. I think we should try to keep cool, don’t taking anything as a personal attack.
Any one has his own opinion and don’t need to be aggressive to the others.
I’ve gave again and again the shame explanations and you ask me again and again the same questions.
The key factor for me is that I’m sure that MS simulated the accident. If you’ve seen the race and disagree with me, there aren’t more questions at all.
We just have a different opinion that’s all. There is no need for further discussions.
If you felt I’m offending your idols, I’m sorry but that’s what I think.
Good luck
#226758
Wikipedia says this:

Webber – who brushed the armco with the right-hand side of his car three laps previously[27][32] – pitted after struggling for grip on the super-soft, option tyres.[31] He rejoined the circuit 16th, and behind the early-stopping trio of Rosberg, Petrov and Alguersuari. Four laps later, Alonso also brushed the Turn 19 barrier before pitting.[31]



Taken from the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Abu_Dhabi_Grand_Prix#cite_note-pitstops-30


Please don’t believe everything that you read. Official version isn´t always the truth. Like in this case in my opinion.
#226760
Ok, but where's this going?

The real reason Alonso pitted?

Although the Ferrari team would surely be saying this in their defence.... :confused:


I’m an independent person. What I say isn’t excuses or complains. It’s simply what in my opinion is the truth.
#226761
Ok mate - after 14 pages of you telling everyone to go back and look at images and videos you're going on like a cracked record. We've watched it, we say what we see, you tell us to watch it again.

I know that´s speculative, but it’s only a man and a team and it wouldn’t had been the first time.
But I insist that the key factor is MS accident. He wouldn´t have done such a thing just for a small possibility of something small. It’s nothing about FA losing, it’s about SV wining.


Wow - that's an improvement from someone who started off this thread with listing everything as fact :eek: . Look on the first lap it's pretty hard to plan something that will decide the outcome 55 laps later. How many hours of planning would it take for the Mercedes Team to do this pefectly?

It's pretty stupid. Vettel won the title on his own accord and Ferrari lost the title on their own accord. And in order for Sebastian to be absolutely ensured of a victory, the Mercedes Team would have had to conspire with the McLaren team as well. It's absurd. Contrary to popular belief, Shumacher can make a mistake. He has spun before with no other cars around him in a Ferrari. Was that a conspiracy? I've seen Alonso spin too with no one around him. Is that a conspiracy?

Schumacher did not want to take out Rosberg. He was off the racing line, meaning there was very little grip. It is usually very difficult for two cars to go through a chicane side by side - is you have the wrong line and are two aggressive - you will spin. Vettel did something similar to Button this year at Spa. Was that a conspiracy? How many times did Liuzzi spin this year? Is that a conspiracy? Hamilton going wide on Alonso in Korea and Brazil? Remember Piquet and Crashajima? They spun nearly every race.... A conspiracy?

Mate - you are one in a million. Stop telling us to look back the videos we watch it - combine it with our experience in watching F1 races - and we know spins happen all the time.

Let me try another blasphemous approach which is bound to grab your attention - was Senna crashing at Imola in '94 a conspiracy to help Schumacher?

Drivers spin all the time. In your oringinal post you said something that made me piss myself I can't quote now because it's too far back. It was like: "Schumacher did not make any contact. So the only other option is that he did it on purpose" :rofl: So there are only 2 factors that can contribute to a spin?

Mate - do yourself a favour - and watch a few more races before you make yourself look like an idiot. :bs:

But welcome to the forum, I'd like to see your opinion on other more relevant issues. :wavey:


You look pretty angry, I´m sorry for that. I have to say one thing to you, people have a tendency to merge thinking and emotions as if they were the same, but they aren’t.
I know how much you do like Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel. I respect that very much, but I think you’re not the most appropriate person to take a neutral part in that issue. If you find the need to defend your idols like if they were truly saints, isn’t my problem. You seem to be the kind of person that tries to thing those ugly things doesn’t exist; you prefer to enjoy things without questioning them. That’s a sage and healthy measure. You’ll be happier this way, but invalidates you to take part in an honest and depth discussion over anything.
If there’s something that I’m looking for are an open mind and an impartial approach to the facts. And I know since my first post that’s a very difficult task. It´s much more easy to find insults and interested or depictive opinions, than truly honest and neutral ones.
I have to admit that you’re one of the few people that have treated me properly since the beginning and I appreciate that, but please, don’t tell me what I must do and I’ll do the same to you.
Nonetheless I have to say that I like much people like you, but not for these questions.
Pd: Do you really think you’ve watched more races than me. I know you don’t.


Schumacher still isn't my idol - at the beginning of the season I hated him, until I finally got to see him race and I watched his interviews as well.

In an interview with Top Gear just said that at the end of the day, all he wants to do is win. I respect that. I saw that in his '94 incident with Hill. In '97 he crossed the line, and was duly punished. When he parked at Racasse in Monaco, he was duly punished for it... But I always hated him - until this year, when I could form an educated opinion.

I have no bias when I have evidence.
#226775
Ok mate - after 14 pages of you telling everyone to go back and look at images and videos you're going on like a cracked record. We've watched it, we say what we see, you tell us to watch it again.

I know that´s speculative, but it’s only a man and a team and it wouldn’t had been the first time.
But I insist that the key factor is MS accident. He wouldn´t have done such a thing just for a small possibility of something small. It’s nothing about FA losing, it’s about SV wining.


Wow - that's an improvement from someone who started off this thread with listing everything as fact :eek: . Look on the first lap it's pretty hard to plan something that will decide the outcome 55 laps later. How many hours of planning would it take for the Mercedes Team to do this pefectly?

It's pretty stupid. Vettel won the title on his own accord and Ferrari lost the title on their own accord. And in order for Sebastian to be absolutely ensured of a victory, the Mercedes Team would have had to conspire with the McLaren team as well. It's absurd. Contrary to popular belief, Shumacher can make a mistake. He has spun before with no other cars around him in a Ferrari. Was that a conspiracy? I've seen Alonso spin too with no one around him. Is that a conspiracy?

Schumacher did not want to take out Rosberg. He was off the racing line, meaning there was very little grip. It is usually very difficult for two cars to go through a chicane side by side - is you have the wrong line and are two aggressive - you will spin. Vettel did something similar to Button this year at Spa. Was that a conspiracy? How many times did Liuzzi spin this year? Is that a conspiracy? Hamilton going wide on Alonso in Korea and Brazil? Remember Piquet and Crashajima? They spun nearly every race.... A conspiracy?

Mate - you are one in a million. Stop telling us to look back the videos we watch it - combine it with our experience in watching F1 races - and we know spins happen all the time.

Let me try another blasphemous approach which is bound to grab your attention - was Senna crashing at Imola in '94 a conspiracy to help Schumacher?

Drivers spin all the time. In your oringinal post you said something that made me piss myself I can't quote now because it's too far back. It was like: "Schumacher did not make any contact. So the only other option is that he did it on purpose" :rofl: So there are only 2 factors that can contribute to a spin?

Mate - do yourself a favour - and watch a few more races before you make yourself look like an idiot. :bs:

But welcome to the forum, I'd like to see your opinion on other more relevant issues. :wavey:


You look pretty angry, I´m sorry for that. I have to say one thing to you, people have a tendency to merge thinking and emotions as if they were the same, but they aren’t.
I know how much you do like Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel. I respect that very much, but I think you’re not the most appropriate person to take a neutral part in that issue. If you find the need to defend your idols like if they were truly saints, isn’t my problem. You seem to be the kind of person that tries to thing those ugly things doesn’t exist; you prefer to enjoy things without questioning them. That’s a sage and healthy measure. You’ll be happier this way, but invalidates you to take part in an honest and depth discussion over anything.
If there’s something that I’m looking for are an open mind and an impartial approach to the facts. And I know since my first post that’s a very difficult task. It´s much more easy to find insults and interested or depictive opinions, than truly honest and neutral ones.
I have to admit that you’re one of the few people that have treated me properly since the beginning and I appreciate that, but please, don’t tell me what I must do and I’ll do the same to you.
Nonetheless I have to say that I like much people like you, but not for these questions.
Pd: Do you really think you’ve watched more races than me. I know you don’t.


Schumacher still isn't my idol - at the beginning of the season I hated him, until I finally got to see him race and I watched his interviews as well.

In an interview with Top Gear just said that at the end of the day, all he wants to do is win. I respect that. I saw that in his '94 incident with Hill. In '97 he crossed the line, and was duly punished. When he parked at Racasse in Monaco, he was duly punished for it... But I always hated him - until this year, when I could form an educated opinion.

I have no bias when I have evidence.


It’s OK
#226791
I’ve gave again and again the shame explanations and you ask me again and again the same questions.
The key factor for me is that I’m sure that MS simulated the accident. If you’ve seen the race and disagree with me, there aren’t more questions at all.


You've spent most of your time dancing around my question, finally admitting that you don't actually have any real explanation for why Schumacher would have done so. You might be sure that it was a 'simulated' accident, but you're the only one. People far more qualified than you (i.e. the whole world of Formula One professionals) have not come to this conclusion.

If not even the 'victim' in this whole affair has hinted even slightly that they feel cheated, does that not then tell you something? Current and ex-F1 drivers, team personnel, FIA officials, drivers from other motor sports and almost every fan (you being the only exception so far, it seems) have accepted this as being a case of:

  • One driver making a mistake
  • Several drivers, notably Rosberg and Petrov, taking advantage of a safety car situation to give themselves a better chance of a higher-placed finish
  • One driver making the most of a long run on the prime tyres to move from outside the top-ten to comfortably in the points
  • One driver having tyre graining issues and deciding (wrongly) that it would be the right decision to pit at the time
  • One team pitting one driver to cover off the previous driver, but failing
  • That same team then panicking and pitting their second driver to cover, losing sight of what is going on at the front
  • Two title contenders being unable to cut back through the field and regain any hope of taking the title
  • One driver, perhaps unexpectedly, winning the title

That's millions of people. Does this not tell you anything?

Most of us here have been watching the sport for a while and we've seen incidents like Schumacher's happen before. Some of us even race (see bud, Sam and I think billindenver as examples). Contact isn't necessary for mistakes to be made, for spins to occur. Formula One cars are very delicately balanced and putting them off-line, around the outside in a move like Schumacher's, is going to upset them. If at this point you get on the throttle too early, you're going to spin. Over the years, I've seen it time after time after time. It's part of the sport.

Jack your English is interesting, what is your native tongue?


I wouldn't like to type out my guess. ;)
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