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[Hammer278]

That's a nice dig out mate. But consider the circumstances.

Ferrari were on a 1-2 heading for victory. They have the maximum as a team and should ensure 'no preference for 1 driver' rule, 42 points there for the taking already. Instead, they have manipulated the pinnacle of the race by simply reversing orders of RACE VICTORY.

In McLarens circumstance, Heikki was not LEADING. Neither was Lewis. Lewis was on a flier, he was genuinely faster than Heikki and the motive of McLaren - To get as many WCC points as possible. Lewis had the chance to do that as he was on the pace to catch the guys at the front, and unfortunately the guy who was stopping the progress was Heikki. To attain as much as possible, the logical step is to employ preferential treatment in the interests of the team. Lewis didn't dissapoint, I believe he did catch up to whoever was in front and pass. Bear in mind he won the WDC by 1 point that season, and bringing the glory to McLaren.

In Ferrari's circumstance, Felipe is only a win away from his teammate....and would have closed the gap quite considerably if Ferrari were being fair and let them race. They didn't. They had the maximum they needed but simply lied their way through to get Alonso the victory when he clearly did not deserve it.

I hope my post is clear.

[Jamie]

Have we all gone too far?, were we all driven crazy by the mass media or what? . We don't need to go that back in time to remind that 2 years ago the same events took place and not many ppl made their complaints over here, of course it was the other way round. So plz ppl stop pushing the britton to win at any cost and brush up on this:

Monday, 21 July 2008

"McLaren boss Ron Dennis rejected any suggestion Heikki Kovalainen was the victim of team orders during Sunday's German Formula One Grand Prix.
As Hockenheim winner and championship leader Lewis Hamilton made his way back to the front following the mid-race safety car, his Finnish teammate Kovalainen, now a full 30 points behind in the driver's standings, seemed to pull aside and let his British colleague past.
Hamilton, 23, and Dennis thanked the 26-year-old for his cooperation.
Dennis denied Kovalainen was ordered to cede, which would be a breach of the post 2002 rules.
"The only thing we do is advise our drivers of the respective pace of the other driver", he said."

Since McLaren wasn't fined for this it is evidently unfair if FIA undergoes a different treatment on other teams.
By the way, it has been outrageous how the interviewer harrased both dirvers throughout the press conference, he has been excessively temperamental against both Ferrari drivers.

Its not right for any team, but as i believe they have been fined and lets just leave it. End off!!!

Next race, new challenges, Ferrari V McLaren & RBR.

[bud]

I hope my post is clear.

most clear, funny these Fernandistas reaching to try and make better of this new pathetic act added onto his illustrious resume of his!

[Hexagram]

Have we all gone too far?, were we all driven crazy by the mass media or what? . We don't need to go that back in time to remind that 2 years ago the same events took place and not many ppl made their complaints over here, of course it was the other way round. So plz ppl stop pushing the britton to win at any cost and brush up on this:

Monday, 21 July 2008

"McLaren boss Ron Dennis rejected any suggestion Heikki Kovalainen was the victim of team orders during Sunday's German Formula One Grand Prix.
As Hockenheim winner and championship leader Lewis Hamilton made his way back to the front following the mid-race safety car, his Finnish teammate Kovalainen, now a full 30 points behind in the driver's standings, seemed to pull aside and let his British colleague past.
Hamilton, 23, and Dennis thanked the 26-year-old for his cooperation.
Dennis denied Kovalainen was ordered to cede, which would be a breach of the post 2002 rules.
"The only thing we do is advise our drivers of the respective pace of the other driver", he said."

Since McLaren wasn't fined for this it is evidently unfair if FIA undergoes a different treatment on other teams.
By the way, it has been outrageous how the interviewer harrased both dirvers throughout the press conference, he has been excessively temperamental against both Ferrari drivers.

Ya I've said this already but most people on this forum want Alonso's/Ferrari's blood. Thanks for digging up the report. In which McLaren did the exact same thing!

For everyone else on this forum; It is wishful thinking if you honestly believe anything will happen to Ferrari at the WMSC in 3 weeks. FM/RS will deny team orders and Massa will say that he decided himself to let Alonso pass him, which he is perfectly entitled to do so.

End of the day, he was not told to let Alonso pass, he took on board that Alonso was faster than him (which he was) and let him by. Even though we know deep down that he was essentially told to let Alonso through.

[bud]

Are you Fernando fans idiots? how was that the same thing? Hamilton was leading until the SC screwed his race and he made his way through the field from 5th to retake the lead.

"Alonso is faster can you confirm this message" This sounds like a coded relay to Felipe to me and to everyone else who doesnt wear red!

[hamilton08]

I do believe the message was like
"Fernando is faster than you can you confirm that you undersood this message" and the tone of voice it was said in.

Sounds like a clear message to me

[Hexagram]

Are you Fernando fans idiots? how was that the same thing? Hamilton was leading until the SC screwed his race and he made his way through the field from 5th to retake the lead.

So it is ok then to have your team mate move out of the way when he is faster and his race has been compromised by some event?

Radio transmission from McLaren was "Heikki, Lewis is just behind you now."


Team orders, 100%. He did it much more gracefully though by running wide at turn 6 to let Lewis pass him and like the good little whipping boy he was at McLaren for Lewis didn't say a thing.

[bud]

unbelievable, do you not remember they were on different fuel strategies at that point? How many times did we see teams tell their drivers if they were on different fuel strategies not to hinder their pace. Lewis was in a different league to all the cars around him!
Totally different to Massa running a safe first with Fernando 2nd. Who if he was so much faster why not pass him? Lewis showed that you can make your way through the field at Hockenheim if you have a pace advantage.

But if you want to group the two together to make you feel better for Fernandos pathetic win yesterday then good for you!!!!

I do believe the message was like
"Fernando is faster than you can you confirm that you undersood this message" and the tone of voice it was said in.

Sounds like a clear message to me

yes i forgot the understood part which is telling because he is implying the message has a meaning a purpose to it. Which is an order!

[3double8]

They should've discussed this "coded team order" much earlier although am sure none of them foresaw Massa leading the race. Domenicalli clearly not the sharpest knife in the drawer

[Jamie]

This is F1, Like DC said, why argue? It's done. It will happen in every team. End off, McLaren do it, If they crashed Ferrari would of been in more turmoil. They had no evidence and were fined $100,000. Which McLaren were when Lewis in Canada lost fuel. Not serious to them, they got away with it and i feel sorry for Massa yer? But It's his job in one way, Alonso mathematically had to win.

Just leave it, were all going round in circles.

[bud]

Just leave it, were all going round in circles.

good luck until the WMSC meeting this is all we will be chatting about!

[Hexagram]

unbelievable, do you not remember they were on different fuel strategies at that point? How many times did we see teams tell their drivers if they were on different fuel strategies not to hinder their pace. Lewis was in a different league to all the cars around him!
Totally different to Massa running a safe first with Fernando 2nd. Who if he was so much faster why not pass him? Lewis showed that you can make your way through the field at Hockenheim if you have a pace advantage.

But if you want to group the two together to make you feel better for Fernandos pathetic win yesterday then good for you!!!!

I will, they are the same thing... Team orders, expect instead of being for 5th place or whatever the McLaren switch in 2008 was for. This Ferrari one was for the lead.

By the way Bud, it was 10 or so laps from the end when Lewis passed Heikki. Different strategies or not, neither were going to pit again.

[bud]

unbelievable, do you not remember they were on different fuel strategies at that point? How many times did we see teams tell their drivers if they were on different fuel strategies not to hinder their pace. Lewis was in a different league to all the cars around him!
Totally different to Massa running a safe first with Fernando 2nd. Who if he was so much faster why not pass him? Lewis showed that you can make your way through the field at Hockenheim if you have a pace advantage.

But if you want to group the two together to make you feel better for Fernandos pathetic win yesterday then good for you!!!!

I will, they are the same thing... Team orders, expect instead of being for 5th place or whatever the McLaren switch in 2008 was for. This Ferrari one was for the lead.

By the way Bud, it was 10 or so laps from the end when Lewis passed Heikki. Different strategies or not, neither were going to pit again.

you realise Lewis passed all the cars ahead of Heikki dont you? and different strategies yeah... they would have been on different fuel loads!!

But like i said if it makes you feel better to group this in the same light so be it. Just shows your true colours so to speak

[Hexagram]

unbelievable, do you not remember they were on different fuel strategies at that point? How many times did we see teams tell their drivers if they were on different fuel strategies not to hinder their pace. Lewis was in a different league to all the cars around him!
Totally different to Massa running a safe first with Fernando 2nd. Who if he was so much faster why not pass him? Lewis showed that you can make your way through the field at Hockenheim if you have a pace advantage.

But if you want to group the two together to make you feel better for Fernandos pathetic win yesterday then good for you!!!!

I will, they are the same thing... Team orders, expect instead of being for 5th place or whatever the McLaren switch in 2008 was for. This Ferrari one was for the lead.

By the way Bud, it was 10 or so laps from the end when Lewis passed Heikki. Different strategies or not, neither were going to pit again.

you realise Lewis passed all the cars ahead of Heikki dont you? and different strategies yeah... they would have been on different fuel loads!!

But like i said if it makes you feel better to group this in the same light so be it. Just shows your true colours so to speak

So why not just overtake his team mate like everyone else?

You already know I don't agree with the results and would have been happy to see Massa win with Alonso 2nd.

Its just too much fun to argue with you.

[Flux]

people looking for blood are just alonso haters, but lets be frank there are plenty of reason's to do so.

just wanna point out to the people above that someone else's actions never justify your own. You cannot justify murder by saying well X killed X and got away with it so why am i not? life just doesn't work like that, using a mclaren incident to justify ferrari's wont go anywhere. the blame lies within ferrari management not Felipe and unfortunately not Alonso.

The only people that lost from all of this is us the fans, and then to go and very clearly lie to journalists who are essentially reporting to us again is just a insult to our intelligence about the sport. I used to be ferrari through and through but recently ive started to fall out of love with them, alonso is just poison for the team, almost ruined Mclaren, ruined renault and now ripping ferrari to shreds.

i just don't see how i can or others can defend ferrari's actions, its the first major ( and lets be honest obvious ) team orders that effect the winner of a race since 2002, its time for the fia to make an example to finally stamp them out of the sport, the deprive us of amazing racing and i doubt we will have another chance to see alonso vs massa now this season, which is a real shame as the other top teams have allowed there drivers to drive and race each other.