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[mnmracer]

From that earlier link, I thought this one deserved to stand on its own in this topic:

[What's Burning?]

This has done wonders for traffic in the Vettel thread. Finally.

m&m you still fail to acknowledge the fact that in your primary example, Silverstone, they weren't even close to racing for the win, it was for position.

Points, is points, but an F1 win is measured differently. That's why Vettel disobeyed, it would have been an easier pill to swallow for him otherwise. it's funny and everything, the tears pic, and Webber is just not a good enough driver to compete with Seb long term, but on some days he is quicker. What you saw Sunday was Vettel putting himself above the team, which I've mentioned a few times. I"m completely okay with that, but knowing this 3 times WDC, and his modus operendi, I know that the next time the situation is reversed and Webber passess HIM, he'll go into little girl mode, as he always does when things don't go his way. And the bottled drink then will be a 2 liter size.

You promise to come back and write about that, defending what Webber did?

[Hammer278]

[andrew]

Button disobeys teamorders in Turkey 2010: not much happens
Button disobeys teamorders in Japan 2010: not much happens
Webber disobeys teamorders in Britain 2011: everyone supports Webber for disobeying teamorders
Webber disobeys teamorders in Abu Dhabi 2012: everyone slants Red Bull for giving teamorders
Webber disobeys teamorders in Brazil 2012: everyone slants Vettel for not starting faster

Vettel disobeys teamorders in Malaysia 2013: OMG, teamorders should always be followed!!!

The sad thing is, I am not even surprised anymore by this hypocritical bull
Double standards running rampant these days

Its because nobody likes Vettel dude, he's a <EDIT WB> and a half.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, albeit you're coming at it from a different angle. I'd wager that had it been Webber that had gone against team orders (again) he'd have been hailed as a hero for beating the nasty German. I've often thought (and recent events have done nothing to disprove this) that the British press hate the Germans and blindly adore their (former) colonials. Kind of like the British media are stuck in the Victorian age.

I reckon Horners, Vettels and Webbers phones will be tapped by now.

[mnmracer]

m&m you still fail to acknowledge the fact that in your primary example, Silverstone, they weren't even close to racing for the win, it was for position.

So you think it's ok to steal a Ford Focus but not a Ferrari?
Not to mention, try to steal 3 Ford Focusses?

I know that the next time the situation is reversed and Webbers passess HIM, he'll go into little girl mode, as he always does when things don't go his way.

Did he go into little girl mode after Silverstone 2011? No
Did he go into little girl mode after Abu Dhabi 2012? No
Did he go into little girl mode after Brazil 2012? No

Unfounded claim.

You promise to come back and write about that, defending what Webber did?

Have I ever been really gone?
Like I already said in Silverstone, I am all for racing, but in instances like this, Webber should not be surprised karma will find its way back.
If Webber does it again, I will again be for racing, but if he is a hypocrite again, I will again call him out on that, like I called Vettel out on the one thing he did wrong today, which was not own up to his (karmatic) move.

If he had said "I just learned from the best", and than tapped Webber on the shoulder, he would forever be my hero.

[What's Burning?]

No, little girl mode necessary when things go his way. Who wins in all of your examples? (a championship in the last one) Funny though, none of them were even for a win. But Turkey 2010, remember that? Webber is loco, he didn't let me pass. That one was also for a win.

It only comes out on when things don't go his way, the little girl mode. He's a fine driver otherwise.

EDIT: Oh, and BTW, I'm not saying that stealing a focus is different than stealing a ferrari, I'm saying that the media doesn't report it in the same way. So if you're gonna do the crime, then you gotta be willing to do the time. Little girls don't do well in the slammer.

[spankyham]

Maybe it's time for SV to move on and join Ferrari...

Absolutely not, at Ferrari they would never stand to have a driver overrule the team. He may have actually sealed his fate with the scuderia.

Uh, wrong - he would never be in a similar position as he'd have no. 1 status, absolute no. 1 status in a Schumacheresque way, so he'd never have to fight his teammate.

Your Schumi analogy simply proves how utterly wrong you are. Malaysia '99 Shumi was given a clear team order to move over and let Irvine pass him. Schumi did exactly as he was told. Ferrari have a team #1 and that's clear. But every #2 at Ferrari understands the path to becoming #1 - its clear and achievable if they are good enough.

[darwin dali]

Maybe it's time for SV to move on and join Ferrari...

Absolutely not, at Ferrari they would never stand to have a driver overrule the team. He may have actually sealed his fate with the scuderia.

Uh, wrong - he would never be in a similar position as he'd have no. 1 status, absolute no. 1 status in a Schumacheresque way, so he'd never have to fight his teammate.

Your Schumi analogy simply proves how utterly wrong you are. Malaysia '99 Shumi was given a clear team order to move over and let Irvine pass him. Schumi did exactly as he was told. Ferrari have a team #1 and that's clear. But every #2 at Ferrari understands the path to becoming #1 - its clear and achievable if they are good enough.

One example? In how many years? And that's just to placate the no. 2 driver and the public.

[Hammer278]

Maybe it's time for SV to move on and join Ferrari...

Absolutely not, at Ferrari they would never stand to have a driver overrule the team. He may have actually sealed his fate with the scuderia.

Uh, wrong - he would never be in a similar position as he'd have no. 1 status, absolute no. 1 status in a Schumacheresque way, so he'd never have to fight his teammate.

Your Schumi analogy simply proves how utterly wrong you are. Malaysia '99 Shumi was given a clear team order to move over and let Irvine pass him. Schumi did exactly as he was told. Ferrari have a team #1 and that's clear. But every #2 at Ferrari understands the path to becoming #1 - its clear and achievable if they are good enough.

Bro..the #1 driver had BROKEN his leg for half the season. If Ferrari did not give that order to Schumacher, they don't even deserve to be in F1.

[andrew]

Maybe it's time for SV to move on and join Ferrari...

Absolutely not, at Ferrari they would never stand to have a driver overrule the team. He may have actually sealed his fate with the scuderia.

Uh, wrong - he would never be in a similar position as he'd have no. 1 status, absolute no. 1 status in a Schumacheresque way, so he'd never have to fight his teammate.

Your Schumi analogy simply proves how utterly wrong you are. Malaysia '99 Shumi was given a clear team order to move over and let Irvine pass him. Schumi did exactly as he was told. Ferrari have a team #1 and that's clear. But every #2 at Ferrari understands the path to becoming #1 - its clear and achievable if they are good enough.

So why does Massa have to pull over or have his gearbox tampered with when he's ahead of Alonso? He's out performed Alonso (until the pitwall intervenes) 4 races in a row now so surely Massa should be their no. 1 driver this season.

[spankyham]

Maybe it's time for SV to move on and join Ferrari...

Absolutely not, at Ferrari they would never stand to have a driver overrule the team. He may have actually sealed his fate with the scuderia.

Uh, wrong - he would never be in a similar position as he'd have no. 1 status, absolute no. 1 status in a Schumacheresque way, so he'd never have to fight his teammate.

Your Schumi analogy simply proves how utterly wrong you are. Malaysia '99 Shumi was given a clear team order to move over and let Irvine pass him. Schumi did exactly as he was told. Ferrari have a team #1 and that's clear. But every #2 at Ferrari understands the path to becoming #1 - its clear and achievable if they are good enough.

One example? In how many years? And that's just to placate the no. 2 driver and the public.

It only takes one example DD - once something is shown to be wrong its wrong - end of.

[spankyham]

So why does Massa have to pull over or have his gearbox tampered with when he's ahead of Alonso?

Felipe was asked to move over when Nando was clearly the driver with the chance to win the title. When they changed his gearbox Felipe had under 100 points with 2 races to go, whilst Nando had 245 and the only chance of winning a title for the team that year - that is "why".

[spankyham]

Bro..the #1 driver had BROKEN his leg for half the season. If Ferrari did not give that order to Schumacher, they don't even deserve to be in F1.

Exactly! That's why it is irksome to me when people try to simply deny these facts because it doesn't suit their minds creation of Ferrari history/practice. Very much akin to the tabloid reporter credo - "never let the facts get in the way of a good story"

[andrew]

So why does Massa have to pull over or have his gearbox tampered with when he's ahead of Alonso?

Felipe was asked to move over when Nando was clearly the driver with the chance to win the title. When they changed his gearbox Felipe had under 100 points with 2 races to go, whilst Nando had 245 and the only chance of winning a title for the team that year - that is "why".

But you bemoan Red Bull using team orders then justify Ferrari doing the same thing. I cannot name a single no. 2 driver who has prospered at Ferrari.

[myownalias]

The only #2 at Ferrari that came close in recent times is Eddie Irvine but that was because Schumacher crashed and spent 1/3rd of the season on the sidelines. Massa was #2 to MSC, then Raikkonen and now Alonso!